Do narcissists love money? Of course! They love any resource that gives them control and power, and money can undoubtedly provide those benefits.
And while we all need money to survive, it can also be a dangerous weapon that can hurt other people. Subsequently, when it comes to their strange relationship with money, most narcissists make their own rules and play their own games.
Some narcissists are objectively wealthy. But many of them are struggling, and understanding the narcissist and money problems can be paramount for your well-being. Let’s get into what you should know.
Narcissists and Money: Why Is Money Important to Them?
Most people covet money. It offers an undeniable sense of security and freedom. Likewise, it can help us achieve status, control, and power. These are relatively normal human desires. We all want to feel like we can provide for ourselves and our loved ones.
But narcissists use their money to augment how others perceive them. Money becomes a tool, a way to build what they want out of thin air.
For instance, if they want to maintain the image of a “perfect life,” they just need to swipe their credit card. Even if they’re on the brink of bankruptcy, nobody needs to know.
Additionally, most narcissists will never feel like they have enough money. Because narcissists do not experience the intangible benefits of human connection, they often use cash as a substitute for love. Therefore, the void feels bottomless. The more they desire wealth, the more they become addicted to the game of acquiring and spending it.
Why Do Narcissists Like Money?
Make no mistake- they don’t necessarily like money for the sake of liking money. That claim is far too simplistic.
Instead, narcissists like what money provides: security, power, self-esteem, freedom, and admiration from others. Money simply represents the vehicle driving them to their intended destination.
Often, narcissists assume that money can help them buy love, happiness, and friendship. Even if they don’t necessarily value those benefits, they do value feeling appreciated and adored, and only other humans can fulfill those needs.
Are Narcissists Greedy?
Yes, most narcissists are relatively stingy and protective over their money. They don’t willingly hand over what they have. However, this greed extends beyond self-preservation.
Because narcissists lack empathy for others, they don’t necessarily understand the benefits of sharing their resources. To them, the world may already feel like a cruel and unfair place, but it’s not their job to help anyone else.
Likewise, they feel highly driven by competition. The narcissist constantly compares themselves to others, even if it seems like they only focus on their accomplishments. As a result, the notion of “giving something away” may feel threatening. They don’t want to face any possible chance that someone else could take advantage of them.
Understanding Narcissists and Their Money Habits
The narcissist’s spending habits can feel confusing from an outside perspective. At times, your complicated relationship with the narcissist and money issues will often feel unfair and cruel.
First, their decisions may feel completely erratic. For example, they might buy a brand new boat when they live nowhere close to a lake. Or, they will spontaneously start a business despite no knowledge about the industry.
Furthermore, some choices seem dangerous, concerning, and even abusive. They may control what you spend. They might steal or take from others without regard to how it could affect someone else. And they frequently break the law while completely justifying their choices.
Why Is the Narcissist Obsessed With Money?
The dynamic between the narcissist and money obsession isn’t always straightforward. Usually, they’re obsessed with their image and reputation. Money gives the narcissist the ability to be whoever they want to be.
Additionally, many narcissists enjoy proving themselves to other people. If their family struggled with money, they might feel an intense need to flaunt their ability to change those circumstances.
If a colleague suddenly receives an impressive promotion, the narcissist might try to double-down their work efforts to earn even more. They may even quit their current position impulsively to pursue a higher-paying job.
Why Are Narcissists Bad With Money?
What happens when the narcissist is financially irresponsible? Does that mean they don’t care about money? Does it mean they’re reckless?
The answer is complicated. Some narcissists are notorious for their financial distress. These problems can happen for several reasons. First, narcissists often believe they are above the rules. In some cases, they may lie, steal, or embezzle money while fully justifying their unethical decisions.
Moreover, many narcissists struggle with impulse control or delayed gratification. For example, instead of saving their money to buy something they really want, they may just open up several credit cards or lines of debt.
Additionally, it can be challenging for narcissists to understand long-term consequences. They’re often reactive to their current emotions. If they want something, they want it now, regardless of what could happen later.
That’s why they often find it easy to make large purchases or even file for bankruptcy. After all, if they don’t feel the need to play by society’s rules, why should they care about society’s consequences?
Are Narcissists Generous With Money?
Not usually. Most narcissists want to hoard their resources because their “stuff” gives them a sense of purpose and meaning.
Some narcissists come across as incredibly cheap. They regift items. They always forget their wallet when it’s time to pay. They eat everyone else’s food without sharing their own. Because they don’t comply with social norms, they don’t care if their cheapness affects other people. This disregard is just one of the reasons why most narcissists lack close friendships.
However, some narcissists may flaunt their money to show off to others. They may throw lavish charity events, donate huge sums of money, or give their loved ones amazing gifts during the holidays. Keep in mind that generosity isn’t the motive- instead, their primary goal is to impress others.
Is There a Difference Between Types of Narcissists?
Each narcissist spends, saves, and uses money differently. Their patterns fluctuate depending on their personality and motives. Here are some of the main takeaways.
The Covert Narcissist and Money
If you feel confused about the covert narcissist and spending money, you’re not alone.
Covert narcissists (also known as vulnerable narcissists) often fly under the radar. Compared to their grandiose counterparts, these individuals usually come across as somewhat quiet, guarded, and even shy.
But the covert narcissist desperately craves admiration. But instead of using outward measures, they may devote hours cultivating a perfect online presence. Or, they might try to manipulate getting what they want using passive-aggression or silent treatment rather than blatant hostility.
The covert narcissist tends to be calculated with money. For example, they may not tip a server when they dine alone. But if they go out to eat with a group of people, they may give a massive tip to create a sense of generosity. Or, they may leave price tags on items and then pretend it was a mistake if someone notices.
Covert narcissists may also gaslight their partners or loved ones about money. For instance, they might insist everyone needs to follow a budget. But if someone confronts them on a recent purchase, they may deny ever talking about this budget. Or, they will defend why they needed that item and how it perfectly aligns with their financial goals.
The Cerebral Narcissist and Money
Cerebral narcissists value coming across as wise and intellectually superior over everyone else. They like being in the center of attention, but they tend to be pretentious about their skills and preferences.
Cerebral narcissists may pretend that money doesn’t matter to them. They might even seem to detest wealthy people or high-earning professions. Often, this is due to their own jealousy. But instead of recognizing this feeling, they just tend to put other people down.
Cerebral narcissists can also be highly critical about how other people spend their money. For instance, they may criticize someone for buying a nice home or fancy car. That’s because they might perceive these purchases as vain or silly.
Therefore, many cerebral narcissists are naturally frugal. But they aren’t just frugal because they want to save money. They’re frugal because they think certain expenses are beneath them- as a result, they think these purchases should also be beneath you as well!
The Female Narcissist and Money
Female narcissists often value wealth and financial power just as much as their male counterparts. That said, money is often a way to fulfill their fantasies for love, adoration, and sexual power.
The female narcissist might be overly materialistic, obsessed with their appearance, and compelled to maintain their youth. As a result, they may undergo multiple plastic surgeries and spend excess time shopping, primping, and grooming. This woman might own thousands of clothes- many of which still have the original tags.
Where narcissistic males tend to hoard money, females are more likely to spend it. They want the perfect body, house, and family life. To achieve this perfection, they often spend without regard for the consequences. For instance, they might use money allocated for their child’s college fund. Or, they may max out credit cards behind their spouse’s back.
Unlike someone who lacks financial education, these choices aren’t out of ignorance. They usually know exactly what they’re doing, but they have already rationalized that this is what they “need to do.”
How to Protect Yourself Against the Narcissist Financially
The dynamic between the narcissist and borrowing money becomes quickly complicated for loved ones. On the one hand, you probably want to give them the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, it’s frustrating to feel manipulated or exploited.
Financial abuse can be obvious, but it can also be subtle and difficult to understand. The offenses usually progress over time. The narcissist may start by making offhanded comments about your purchases. They might “give you an allowance” or put you on a budget.
As the relationship evolves, the financial abuse may worsen. Eventually, the narcissist starts controlling all the money. They may spend it mercilessly, but they get upset if you want to buy something. They might also restrict access to specific accounts, use funds without your consent, or limit your ability to earn income.
What if a Narcissist Owes You Money?
Unfortunately, most narcissists won’t pay you back on their own accord. They usually believe they are perfectly entitled to other people’s resources, especially when they’re in a relationship with someone.
Before pursuing your owed money, it’s a good idea to:
- Record all instances of money loaned to the narcissist in a password-protected document.
- Change all passwords to your personal financial accounts.
- Separate your financial accounts as quickly as possible.
- Contact any creditors about suspicious accounts made in your name.
- Reach out to friends and family for financial assistance if needed.
How to Get Money Back From the Narcissist?
Depending on how much the narcissist owes you, you will probably need to consult with a lawyer. As mentioned, narcissists won’t readily give up what they think is theirs.
As a result, it’s vital to protect your safety. If confronted, the narcissist may react dangerously to your accusations. They will probably try to deny or downplay what they owe you. Some may threaten to pursue legal action on their own.
That’s why you should consider speaking with a professional. They can take steps to ensure your safety and well-being during this vulnerable time.
Healing From Narcissistic Financial Abuse
The effects of narcissistic financial abuse can be devastating. Unfortunately, many people don’t recognize such consequences until they leave the relationship. At that point, they may find themselves in a complicated mess of debt, bankruptcy, stolen money, or fraud.
Remember that boundaries are essential. You are not obligated to give the narcissist any of your money. You are also not obligated to enable or even tolerate their abuse.
In many cases, the no-contact approach tends to be the most effective way for sustainable healing. If you no longer want to play their games, you have to end the game- once and for all.
Sources
- Hoertel, N., Peyre, H., Lavaud, P., Blanco, C., Guerin-Langlois, C., René, M., Schuster, J.-P., Lemogne, C., Delorme, R., & Limosin, F. (2018). Examining sex differences in DSM-IV-TR narcissistic personality disorder symptom expression using Item Response Theory (IRT). Psychiatry Research, 260, 500–507. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.psychres.2017.12.031
- NNEDV. (2014). NNEDV. https://nnedv.org/content/about-financial-abuse/
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I say fuck the narcissist. They are the most miserable and jealous ppl out there. I love to see a old narcissist because when They old their stuff dry up and nobody in their life. When run into one I talk bad about narcissist and that person get mad and then I really see the narcissist more
My ex is 66 and he is aging et older but not better , get more depressed but still unpredictable. My ex stopped drinking heavily but didn’t help much he just doesn’t do the silent treatment as long . Does anybody have insight on the withholding intamacy ? He may or may not be having an affair , does disappear for hours to ?? If I ask it’s ” never mind ” . And the look in his face , it’s the position of his mouth and voice like he is possessed . . .
I am still upset with myself and disturbed of how I could have been with a person who didn’t even like me ! Living a lie . Never felt so lonely in the same room with another person. . At least being on my own is not hard at all. No more drama and unpredictable raging . .
Withholding intimacy is ‘punishment’ for a wrongdoing that you have committed in the narc’s mind. It took me 20 years of being married to a man like this until I was educated thoroughly in narcissism. Once we divorced I made up for the lack of intimacy very quickly…..ha ha. Revenge was very sweet…..
Very insightful comments, and article. Upsetting how there seems to be no end, no cure. It seems like it’s onset later in life, when most narcissists have children, so leaving one it seems like it’s month-end later in life, narcissists have children, so leaving one much more complicated, difficult, sad, & scary. But it seems there are no decent options.
A covert narc can withhold intimacy/sex to punish the partner for the victimization stories that go on in the narc’s head. It’s a withholding/discard. They are unable to speak about their emotions on an adult level. If they could, it would still be the partner’s total responsibility .
I’m convinced that whether a narc is cheating or not, they want their current partner to THINK that they’re cheating in order to create feelings of negativity and insecurity in their partner. Mine would announce emotional cheating improprieties. As the years have progressed and I’ve replayed the “announcements” or confessions back in my mind I’ve realized there was never any proof! I then remember telling the narc that I never wanted to know names of whoever they were with and it was almost like they felt like they just HAD to tell me the name! Very telling! I now don’t believe there was ever any emotional affairs and they would just tell me there were to knock me off balance. I’ve determined if there are future confessions I would just laugh and say,”well, whatever happened I’m sure it meant way more to you than it did to them!” Hahaha!
Old Narcs are very very sad indeed/ one I know is left alone in a nursing home and his grown children rarely see him/ he was once very very rich and very active socially/ with money in many many trust funds from his grand parents he spent and wasted through it …now he has nothing but his social security check which pays for his nursing home. Even now he thinks he is above the very ppl whom are also in this nursing home… he’s miserable and trapped in his old age as his mind and body are slipping away.
In his younger days he was an adventure and thought by exercising and staying in top shape he would live to be a 120. He used to make fun of unfit and chubby ppl and always was criticizing and talking badly about ppl. As his money started dwelling he started scamming ppl with bad investments etc. he was always suing someone or being sued… he always thought he was a winner. Sad ???? and I could go on … as I left him over 25 years ago. I see him every once in a blue moon as I have compassion for him because you see I know what happen to him in his childhood that made him become what he is…. he had a very abusive and neglected childhood even though he was raised in a prominent family. Sad very sad.
It is very sad, particularly when you see this in a person that base their happiness on material wealth. They are the first to be scammed with there Ego and become the victim of like minded people.
This is an apt description of my 80 year old mother whom I love but who has exploited other people all her life. She uses the money as power over others and has also sued her children and grand children. She refuses to have carers and myself and my husband are left with her unrealistic expectations even though we are I’ll ourselves.
My mother was the same. She died exactly one year ago at the age of 90. Not long before she died, she told me that the most satisfying thing in her life was to watch her bank account mount. She said she thought God was putting the money in her account for her- not that she had a pension and that I was doing almost everything for her she should have hired someone to do but refused to and refused to allow anyone else to arrange it for her. I did it for over a decade.Why so long? If I hadn’t she would have made it impossible to keep in contact with her and being normal in this respect, I didn’t want to abandon my mother, old, and ill. She left her estate equally to her three daughters. The others did nothing to help with her and they did not believe they owed me a thing for the work I did that freed them from the responsibility of their mother’s care and which also left mom’s assets in good shape rather than being paid out to the care she needed. All Narcissists, as I havecome to understand it through reading. Good bye to all of them.
You sound great, but it does indeed sound as if your sisters are narcissists. It is terribly unfair that they feel they deserve an equal share of the inheritance, when you did the caregiving for your mother. It is truly is amazing how siblings that “do not have the time” to help with caregiving, do indeed have the time when it is time to collect the inheritance. I agree with your statement “Good bye to all of them”.
My NH is a real con artist. He seldom works but, as I now see, when he does he games the system. He finds a way to collect disability or unemployment. He then tells everyone he is self employed. I work and provide 66% to 100% of the family income.
I discovered he and a former mistress were chatting on the phone and texting last year. I happened to see a text he failed to delete as his phone rested between us. He was complaining to her that I would be getting a vacation from work. He was living on my earnings…doing nothing, not even child care. I had to paid someone to watch the kids while I worked my 3 jobs! One job was full time and the other two were part time. So he was getting attention from both of us and money from me.
I am wondering if N improve with age. My NH is 60. Do I dare hope he will become more docile! He rages over anything and everything. Is he likely to stop the fooling around with other women? My attorney has already advised against a divorce since the courts would just order me to pay him alimony and cover his medical expenses since he has been dependent on me.
Hopefully you are in a better situation now. I was in very similar shoes. While married, my husband moved out of the house and into a condo (as big as our house) that his parents provided. The divorce was bad and he took a lot including refusing to divorce until he got an alimony buyout. We had been married for 21 years so I was cooked. God is helping me get back on my feet and I’m very thankful to Him. My ex tries to check in on me and keep some kind of hold while he’s off with a rich older woman, finally now has a good paying job where he can keep all $ to himself, and does precious little for his young adult kids. God bless.
He will never change….. They never do.
No matter what. GET OUT.
You don’t HAVE to divorce him… just move away.
THEY DO NOT GET BETTER…THEY GET WORSE…MUCH WORSE they can’t handle aging
and He Will Take It Out On You.
I called 911 on my unrelenting raging 63 yr old husband that i too did ALL THE WORK inside and outside the home.
mine works 2 days a week as a college professor and complains 24/7 about that.
When he is in a rage–TRUST ME– YOU are in danger… you should read the book
“next time she’ll be dead”
or read the article on this TOTALLY ACCURATE SITE “The Aging Narcissist”. OMGosh
so glad I am getting my EX out of my life.
(it’s hard — they STICK to you like painful glue)
I DESERVE A FEW YEARS OF. P E A C E
He will become worse with age as they all do! Oh, and he purposely left that text for you to see, btw…
I knew of a situation where a narcissistic sister was trying to take part of her sister’s inheritance, and when the narcissistic sister was caught, she blamed it on her innocent sister stating that the sister had influenced the parents for more money, (which was not true). In other words, the narcissistic sister twisted it around to make the non-narcissistic sister look as if she was trying to take more money than her share.
Oh wow! the first time I have read a perfect description of my husband and he did not get any love as a child and was terribly beaten regularly. It appears he cannot feel the emotional pain he causes me through his lies and gambling. He is constantly chasing the dollar and works 7 days a week for it. Although he begrudgingly pays our rent and supplies some food shopping money he refuses to give me any amount of allowance to live on for personal spending. He keeps all the rest of the money he earns with excuses why but just gambles it. I hope to god there is a cure for this man!!
Oh, how I wish there was a cure. But, sadly there is not. I have been in a custody/divorce battle since January of 2015. Since then I knew from past experiences with this man that there was something not right about him and his way of thinking, controlling, money issues, spending time with our adopted 5 year old son, and list list goes on. At first I would kind of joke around and say that he was a narcissis. The more time that goes by, the worse he gets. I started reading and researching the definition and how to know if a person has this disorder. The more I read, the more I was amazed. It wasn’t/isn’t a joking matter at all anymore. Everything that I couldn’t understand before started making so much sense. I am married to a full blown Narcissist. here goes the worse part…There is no kind of medication to cure or even help with it. The only thing I can find is they have to have counseling. That’s it!!,
Now, my question is…How in the world do you convince a narcissis to get counseling???
Counselling would be a waste of time. He will never change. I spent 20 years with one …a totally self absorbed ‘I Specialist’ with no empathy whatsoever. Now I have wasted 6 years with a narc with a serious NPD condition who is so controlling and abusive that I’m surprised I have lasted this long without being murdered and buried in a shallow grave somewhere. I’ve moved house to escape and he’s still refusing to let go. Stuck like poop to a blanket…. I wish he’d move on and leave me alone but it would shatter the fantasy life he has created about himself in front of others. Otherwise he is a total loser…. So over it..!
there is no cure!!
he will only get worse : (
please take care of yourself:
secretly save some money
make plans for a separate future
IGNORE his millions of daily requests
Take care of yourself because he will
DRAIN you physically, mentally, financially, spiritually, totally.
dated narcissist man a year. never could manage money. would give money and need it back. always pretending to have more than he had. I’m due to have our child in August and he dumped me in April. I hope he will pay child support. but he does not respond to anything concerning our daughter. any advice would help.
Hello, no real man who cares would treat you this way. …put him on child support asap…don’t continue to contact him(unless it’s info you need to give to child support). Stop stressing yourself out and your baby. ..that’s not good. ..I know it’s hard right now but concentrate on that beautiful life you’re about to have!
Positivity only
Sorry. It’s a bad idea to get pregnant by a narcissist. They may do anything to say thy are not the child father. They don’t want to pay.
You must put him on child support. Immediately. Go no contact if you can he’s toxic. You better hope he doesn’t have more children you don’t know About. You won’t get much in child support. Still have him on papers.
Also ultimate you must work on your self.
Get a job take care of your child. Don’t let him stress you anymore.
Move out if you can.
I pray this don’t happen to you. My husband who is a truck driver went to spending very little time with our son who is six now, and who we adopted at the age of 4 months after moving to a different state. He went from this to all of a sudden wanting full custody. He walked out on us Thanksgiving 2014. Of course he was having an affair. He had no more left us until I was served a summons preventing me from leaving the state with our son and the fight was on and still is. He brought me from the state I had lived in all my life, away from all my family, my home that I have owned since 2005. He convinced me to quit my job of 15 years with full benefits.
In 2009, my son who was 13 tragical died. He took advantage of that, knowing my mind was so foggy. When you loose a child. You not only loose that child but you loose your mind too. He looked my dad right in the eyes and promised him that he would always take care of me. We had only been married 5 months when this happened. So, of course I had no idea what I had gotten myself into. Now, I’m in the other state, no family, he never wanted me to go back to work, he refuses to pay any child support,alimony. He was supposed to be paying the bills he left me with including rent. He would only pay what he wanted, when he wanted and how much he wanted. Needless to say, me and my baby got evicted. Now, I am staying with a friend, very little income. I was preparing to move back to my home when I got a knock that on the door one evening. It was a man delivering me the summons preventing me from leaving the state.
I was in a car accident in The 80’s breaking my back so, Now I am disabled and not able to work, I have applied from SSD. But, as most people that apply about starve to death before getting deemed disabled or not.
This man has taken everything and I mean everything from me. The only thing I have left besides my precious baby is my home in the other state. I now have to sell it to pay attorney fees and to live on. This man is doing everything he can to totally wipe me completely out of our sons life. He is doing and telling complete and total lies to and about me and is stopping at nothing to try or take our son from me too.
I have applied for food stamps and Medicaid, something that I really appreciate but hate having to rely on the government for support.
I just wanted to share a little of my experience with you. I hope and pray that your ex doesn’t have this disorder. The thing that I did was started researching narcissis. What it meant, the symptoms, divorcing a narcissis, child support from a narcissis, etc….
I would suggest you do the same. It will help you better understand what your up against and a little of how to deal with it….
I pray everything works out for you and your precious baby. Also, Please read about visitation with a narcissis……
i’m so sorry.
I’ve been there.
Don’t sell your house!! it’s your only asset
if there is any equity in it.. do a HELOC
Never sell your house.
I hope all is swell now since you last posted about your situation. I pray that you didn’t have to go to the burdens of selling your home for attorneys. I would like to know your outcome bc I am in a similar situation with a boyfriend and the control over money he possesses and the lack of support for myself to succeed is totally ridiculous but I still love him n want us to work out. I’m just tired of relying upon him. Anyway, I wish u the best n I hope ur present n future are brighter than before.
My ex is 66 and he is aging et older but not better , get more depressed but still unpredictable. My ex stopped drinking heavily but didn’t help much he just doesn’t do the silent treatment as long . Does anybody have insight on the withholding intamacy ? He may or may not be having an affair , does disappear for hours to ?? If I ask it’s ” never mind ” . And the look in his face , it’s the position of his mouth and voice like he is possessed . . .
I am still upset with myself and disturbed of how I could have been with a person who didn’t even like me ! Living a lie . Never felt so lonely in the same room with another person. . At least being on my own is not hard at all. No more drama and unpredictable raging
Sorry to hear of your pain..you have to learn to love yourself .I have been with a Narc for 2 yrs plus ..and it has been sheer Hell most times .he could go at least 2wks max ..without angry controlling outbursts ..this man will tell me the most hurtful things and usually I ignore ..but at times I have to reply ..and he carrys on like I did the most terrible thing to him.he loves to critize me, my friends , my family, he watches and complains how I spend my money .he is controlling. Jealous..don’t work . Behaves as if I am responsible for him .don’t respect my space constantly accuses me of cheating even tried to control what time I went to bed..use my phone take my bath watch I watch on TV..he has poor hygiene ..likes to be constantly complaining and Naggs .wow ..I don’t know why I have tolerated him so long ..Great thing for me though I realize I love him but not in love with him .that would be the Biggest mistake I could ever make..he can go when he wants who cares .I am sure I will get over him .he spices me with sex and intimacy too.i have just detached myself emotionally .he is selfish and thinks he is better than me and everyone ..he hasn’t got a lot of friends ..at first I thought it was me ..doing all the wrong things to upset him .but then I realize normal people don’t get upset so deeply over the simpliest of things .and then a friend suggested narc personality ..I realize he has about 3 narc personalities…I am stronger now .I tell him to fuck off .now ..but he still returns .I have taken back my power .
You’ll need to take him to court for child support. He will not do it voluntarily but will tell everyone else he is
Narcissist Step-father placed savings bonds in my child’s name, on her 18th b-day he took her to the bank to “cash out $1,600” it turned to be $16,000 ALL of which he pocketed after having her cash them out . Yet my child has to take out hefty student loans to cover her cost of college, clearly could of covered them with the savings bond and still had lots left over BUT she gets to pay tax bill from the 1099 next year…and may lose college financial aid too.
My dh’s ex stole $34,000 from her own kids’ social security checks because it was for “her” pain that they were getting the money anyway, so by right, it was hers.
Reminds me of the last guy I dealt with who I believe is a narcissist. I’m a student who has a part time job while he makes 6 figures a year but he always asked me for money. Good thing I barely gave him any (less than $100 over the 5 years I knew him). When he discarded me for the last time, he threw in my face that he is now with a corporate lawyer and she buys him things and is taking him on trips.
That won’t last.He will do we the same thing he has done u.
Sweet, this guy rocks
Sam vaknins comments are unhelpful to say the least- they do not see money as love- they cant see the love- neither can Sam and you really should take what he says with a pinch of salt.
his diagnosis being what it is, he describes very well and confesses his own narcissism but if he were really honest you wouldnt listen for a second- he is using the techniques he is describing to describe the techniques as not what they are- hes like a vampire starved of a fix and is reaching out to mislead and gain praise for his expository but ultimately misleading half truths- he describes narcissism as only a pathological narcissist could- hes all about getting at your fear buttons- and about subtly gaining your respect for his “honesty” which is no such thing.
If he gave you whole truth then what you would find would make you want to kill him.
Psychopaths are sexually excited by the thought of another human being in emotional pain.
Its why they used to call it sadistic personality disorder.
They are biologically programmed to manipulate and torture by either physical or emotional violence- usually both, they embed themselves in a false persona of normalcy , relying on glamour and superficial charm and perception management in order to feed their narcissistic supply- in other words they are all potential sex criminals, can never be trusted with emotionally important tasks or resp[onsibilities.
Sam Vakin is a genius. He has done a considerable amount of work, writing, making videos etc, covering every different aspect and every different kind of narcissist. Delivered with a supreme clarity of expression.
It doesn’t matter if Sam is mentally ill. It’s no one’s concern. Listen to what he’s saying and you will learn something. The fact he’s a narcissist – a cerebral one – makes it even more interesting and relevant. There are narcissists out there who are so highly gifted and intelligent that, were it not for their condition, they would be destined for great success. They nearly always sabotage their own opportunities – as well as wrecking other people’s.
Sam’s sharp mind, and beautifully articulate approach, ensures most people gain a keen insight into this condition. People can more readily relate to his examples. He was one of the first to put this ghastly personality disorder into a digestible form. He is a master at classifying the vague sensations you get when you are with the narcissist. The , ‘I can’t quite put my finger on it’ feeling. in his superb gas-lighting video. Which is really spot on and excellent. People are jealous of Sam though. He has enemies because he’s a force to be reckoned with. Most therapists/psychiatrists just cant hold a candle to his uncluttered, direct approach.
Sam Vaknin, is a fraud, no case studies, no research, a bought Phd, no degree in psychology and a conviction for stock market fraud in Israel. He knows nothing about psychology.
How can you call Sam Vaknin to be a fraud? We all listen to Temple Grandin and her opinion on autism because she is a PhD and has autism. She did not conduct her studies, she simply describes her world and what it feels like to have autism. Professionals in the field consider her to be an expert and try to listen to what she has to say.
Why can’s Sam describe his own perception of his world as a Narcissist? Why can’t we take it as a lesson instead of disregarding it?
One of the features of Narcissism is deception and lying. I find Sam Vaknin interesting, and I wouldn’t call him a fraud, but how much stock should I place in the words of a man whom admits to finding joy in deception and manipulation? Many Narcissists and abusers will bare their souls and gloat in their sins. It’s not remorse; they just gloat in watching others make excuses for their “issues” or “mental illness” like good little co-dependents.
I’ve learned that if someone tells you they’re a “jerk” in the beginning of a relationship of any kind, you should believe them. People with genuine self esteem issues don’t brag and gloat about it. Likewise, if someone tells you they’re a liar, BELIEVE THEM!
Vaknin doesn’t say anything original and some of the things he says are actually completely incorrect, such as his ideas about the co-dependent being an ‘inverted narcissist.’ Such ideas seek to define the victims of narcissists as participants and enablers in the madness, when in fact the narcissist and the sociopath are always predators, they take and never really give.
You would not consult a doctor, dentist or engineer who was not qualified to give you advice, so why trust a fake academic. I’d listen to Vaknin if he had some actual research, but there is none on offer. The insight of the narcissist is not really an insight. They might know that they are sick, but talking about their condition as if they understand it is a false display of insight. If they really understood from the perspective of a sane person, they would give up seeking supply via the internet and get treatment. Narcissist almost never look inside themselves, even in private, because the inner landscape is so empty and not every pleasant. This would tend to explain all the external activity and public persona they have. It is done for them and not for you.
I agre, it gives them sexual pleasure to torment others, especially those, who have sacrificed so many times everything for them, who have extended themselves whole heartedly.
These people need to be locked up and the keys thrown in the ocean. There may be various degrees to NPD but most of them are nothing short of demonic soulless creatures.
Some narcissists – the ones with self-control – are hard workers with solid financial skills, and do amass considerable wealth. Just some questions to ask.
Do they actually like their job and/or career?
Are they in it just for money (or power, fame, status)?
How do they treat their co-workers?
Are they willing to do anything dirty, tedious, or unglamorous – especially when there is no extra reward? (This excludes dangerous tasks unless part of the job. An office clerk is not expected to put out fires. A fireman is.)
Do they have any hobbies? Are they contemptuous towards others that do have hobbies?
How do they feel about volunteer work? Is it below their station?
If they do any volunteering, do they do it only to play the hero?
i believe i’m with a narcissist. He doesn’t have any money, but does have a supportive family. i’ve been seeing him daily for the past 4 years. I started feeling depressed recently, not realizing i’ve been coaxed into the despair on confusion in my life. The only thing that is promising is my job…besides that. I’ve never been introduced to his family, he constantly ask me for 3 ways, always ogling other woman, he made my past birthday seem like a strain to him. all he talked about was his birthday that is this weekend. I had my own place, bc i spend time, money and resources on eating and hanging out, i spend more time at his place then where i pay rent. then when the lease gets terminated from me not being there, (but i did pay rent on time always) i don’t have a finance problem…but i do bc he does, so i spend way too much to be his company. I don’t know what to do, he is expecting me to pay for his bday weekend, and i have this money for a futuristic place to live, my clothes are in a suitcase in his car…and i gave him 500 dollars to stay…he bc he kept talking about something he wanted to invest in. I decided to give him instead to make an even barter for me to stay. then he was gaslighting me, until i couldn’t stop being paranoid etc…i really want to end things, but when things look bad for me he pushes me away, when good things happen he keeps me isolated so i can’t become comfortable enough with any new changes. I don’t know what to do, but i’m starting to understand the cycle…is he a narcissist?
Of course he is a Narcissist. He is also a Psychopath and a pathological liar. But you are a Co-Dependent, you have a deep-seated terror of separation from others that goes back to transference issues with your own Father. N are grandiose self-lovers, sadly they were never loved as children. You can never save them, their hearts are stone………….. Run as far away as possible and Find true love elsewheres
My daughter in law is a psycho who has never been diagnosed ALL THE SIGNS ARE THERE.. She has told her family that my grandson has less than a year to live and needs money. They offered to take him for a second opinion, I think that is the fastest she cut them out of her life. She got the money from my mom and dad who are both in their late eighties. He has a squint in one eye which she refuses to have seen to because she can garner sympathy for her child with special needs eg. MONEY she did not work for 7 years out of 9 but had my sons banks cards to control the finances. She has even starved my son he lost 40 kgs. This was while again my parents were putting money for food into to her account I have six adults in my home and the amount she was getting from my parents was enough to feed us. She had 2 adults and two children and never had food or money. These people do not love they posses people and will keep on and never let them go. Years can go past but they will be there all the time ready to come back and wreck your life again.
DONT SHOW EMOTION look through them but don’t give in. If you have kids together get someone else to pick up and drop off or have a witness with you. GOOD LUCK and BE STRONG
Your comment is very powerful & I would’ve never imagined such evil exits in my life’s journey but it took meeting a man who put on a mask long enuf for me to care before I saw his torturous shattered scapegoat cinderella sadisticly helpless yet compassionate kind unknowing trusting child like son of evil ambient narcisstic ritual inflict or of brainwashing thru brutal tactics sl his a duration, trust & obidient conditioned to respond as Pavlov dog crippling him in every way!
My only child who lived with me so I could help care for my granddaughter since birth & upon attaining her BSN WAS ABRUPTLY MOVED IN WITH GUY WHO yells, publicly humiliates, tells her she’s no good with finances & my then 7 yr 2 month left me a note bringing utter disbelief?!
My granddaughter told me not to come to her house caus (in fearful tone!), he yells & hel yell at me… He won’t let her talk in car on drive to school so I awoke at 4 00a.m. So my lil girl could go back to sleep & we’d get ready as always. My daughter began calling me 8 consecutive Friday mites hysterical that she’s unhappy , he’s kicking her out & finally after the last call I called him in a calm manner yet concerned seeking his perspective on the upheaval & unaware of consequences–I’m totally cut off & the enemy who LISTENS to how she SHOULD act & yells, no friends, always rite & until iv learned how to treat him, I can’t see my 9 yr old a week ago (which he prohibited me from !) & my lil girl upon awakening text me, she doesn’t care that I wasn’t at her party so I know she’s torn, angry n confused!!! I wish I knew the DIRECTOR OF THE FBI OR CIA –this is not fair to take away innocent skipping confident childhood to be used as a pawn by guy not even her father!!! This world needs to raise awareness & help ASAP
I’m a narcissist. I finally circled around to the real problem after about 20 years of therapy. I am the “covert” kind – so I don’t go with the flashy stuff, actually I pride myself in frugality – in fact, I wear my frugality like a badge of honour, and regularly chastise people who are drawn to a life of material excess.
Further to the covert subtype, I have used both somatic and cerebral means of attaining “supply” (which I used to refer to as ‘false validation’ when I looked upon myself more so as a victim, again, consistent with the realities of being a covert narcissist).
My somatic supply slowly eroded as my troubled marriage wore away my charm, looks and health. Where I used to charm and seduce women, I found myself helplessly staring at them, knowing that there was no longer any point.
Realizing my career was, at best, ordinary and probably lacklustre by many people’s standards, I lost much ground in the cerebral realm as well. Despite having impressed (and worked with) some pretty smart individuals in the past, and contributing to some great projects, I came to realize that I was quite ordinary in the presence of not just some, but most of my colleagues. This is true as new young talent entered the company and I thought “I was never that smart… I never had that much sheer intellectual horsepower at my disposal as that young man does.”
Now, divorced with finances hanging on a thread, I am descending into deeper and deeper depressions. Paranoia may be setting in – my conspiracy theories as to why society has all cards stacked against me, they’re starting to collude and gel. My therapist gave me cues that he was concerned… and not necessarily about me.
I don’t know what exactly happened to me when I was a kid, but somewhere something got… deformed, before it grew. Before it grew up.
Perhaps part of me was just stunted and never developed – perhaps not a sense of self so much as an actual *part* of self. Self actualization. Self realization. These things seem to be missing. I am always speaking in terms of an external locus of control – I am being washed downstream by life, raging at the power of the merciless current, feeling no power to change my course or destiny at all. This is why I act the way I do. The projections. The acting. The seduction. It’s all to make more bearable the horrible feeling of being alive and being around other people. Lately, solitude and the onset of oblivion through sleep are the only things which provide me a shred of enjoyment, or more accurately, a small taste of solace.
It seems 99% of information online about narcissism is to help people identify, avoid, or heal from narcissists. Few narcissists report their experience. Mine is a slow descent into hell.
If you think you’re becoming romantically attached to a narcissist or someone with narcissistic tendencies, run and don’t look back.
I only learned recently my husband is a sociopathic N. It is a difficult heartbreaking reality to come to terms with. Thank you for sharing. It shed light on some of the confusion I have in the journey to comprehend this tragedy. The notion of a covert subtype does provide a hint to the complexities. Perhaps the N employs self deceiving tactics to subvert any potential for self realization, which would be indeed painful, and shattering. And so, I am a shattered soul, as my husband abandoned me, and a son, two weeks prior to Christmas. A friend, another victim of N, told me the timing, date matters not. Yes, no one can dodge the bullet when it comes, but I now have an inescapable reminder every year for the rest of my life. But the road is long for the victims to recuperate and regain all that is utterly crushed.
That I dared to notice the signs, I paid a dear price for. I did not know or grasp the depth and true pathology of our marital problems, until this painful enlightenment. Sadly, too many marital counselors play expert with limited skills, and do further damage. I do still love my husband deeply, and would do anything in the world to have him back, even now, flaws and all. I don’t agree with the assertion that Narcissists cannot change or be helped. We can all change, if we take the necessary steps.
It is all a matter of having the courage to find the key, and do the work. It is never too late to grow and learn, to cry and heal, to love, forgive, and become the being we are meant to be. What else are we put on this earth to learn from each other?
Oh, anon, I feel for you, but the likelihood of your husband changing is slim to none.
I began to research narcissism, specifically Malignant Narcissism (also known as Psychopathy) in an effort to understand my brother. Most recently, I came across an article theorizing a genetic predisposition. Scans have shown that there is a biological difference in the brains of Malignant Narcissists, and that life events can exacerbate narcissistic attributes. More research needs to be done, particularly as problems (both behavioral and genetic) can intensify over generations.
You cannot help him. Your devotion will only make more of a problem for the woman that comes next in his life = and there will always be another woman.
Years of association with a Malignant Narcissist may be unrecoverable, but your life can definitely get better. The best thing you can do is escape. Your Malignant Narcissist has to be completely gone from your life, nonexistent. Leave and create a whole new existence for yourself. I wish you well.
HM,
Being in the same boat with you, at the end of the day, it is about making a choice. I learned this from my wife as I watched her decide to make a change and do it. BUT, you have to want to be a different person, visualize who you need to be, and take steps to bring that into reality.
I can only speak to myself, but I refuse to live at the center of the Universe, in an existence where I take but do not give, where I siphon energy from others instead of create positive things and share with others to lift them up.
You can be what you desire to be if you take action to bring it about, but for us, the first step is to recognize the condition, the second is to realize it is not desirable, and the last, and most important, is to take action. Given time, you will find your very way of thinking changes (good therapy will help and if you can’t afford that, then get in a support group and establish a solid circle of friends with whom you have healthy relationships).
Of course, maybe there is something to the argument that if you can do these things you are not really a narcissist… depression can mimic many of its symptoms. I struggled with depression for a long time I think.
It sounds like you have gotten through 1, and maybe 2. Go for 3 if you don’t like where you are. It really is a choice. Everything we do is a choice. We can stay stuck in the past, or we can make the best of what future we have left.
Godspeed to you.
Hello
I am sorry to hear about your struggle I’d like to ask how you doing now with therapy? Hang in there-Lala
Hello, I am a limo driver for a casino. I believe that many of my clients have narcissistic qualities. They are enjoying many free perks given to them by the property including the service that I am providing them. They are not hesitant to make self aggrandizing remarks and like to show off for their friends. All this is well and good but all too often, at the end of a long night, they hand me a tightly rolled bill that is far below fair. The ones that tip well never make it inconspicuous.
Can anyone make suggestions how I might encourage a narcissist to tip well? I am happy to do whatever it takes…. I’ll stroke their ego. I’ll kiss their butts whatever it takes.
BTW. I already go out of my way to provide above and beyond service.
Absolutely. I once typed up a thesis for a Narcissist. He didn’t want to pay me, kept making excuses. One day a cute intern he wanted to date was in the office with us and I quickly asked him for my money in front of her.
I knew his ego would not let him appear cheap in front of this girl. As quickly as I asked for my money, cute intern watching attentively, his wallet appeared and I got my money… after asking for 6 weeks!
So, ask for your money in front of someone they want to impress. Otherwise, kiss your money goodbye.
Sam Vaknin has no degree in psychology or a related subject and his Phd is bought. Psychoogists do not sit around debating with themselves as he does. He has no research and no patients. Stop quoting his nonsense.
My father stole 33,000 from my mothers inheritance and on top of that stole her taxes last year. Also committed adultery around the time he took 33,000.
On his Facebook page it talks about his university education ( he has no education ) besides high school. My father ruined a brothers relationship by attacking me. He blamed me for his lies and adultery.
Used me as his pawn to commit adultery and theft. I caught him buying sex toys online and found out about his adultery. Since then he has hated me and used me while destroying a family.
My mother gave him 4 chances to do the right thing and he failed time and time again. While taking countless dollars from her.
You’re scared for yourself, and your family, and your friends.
They try to win your approval instead of you trying to win theirs.
Said to Ron Weasley, Voldemort’s Horcrux torments him in an attempt to protect itself before Ron stabs
it. I recreated that feeling of southern hospitality by showing my staff
how good it feels to treat all our guests as if they are family.
The Lurcher is not a breed, as such, but more a type of dog.
My sister the narcissist has cheated everyone of us siblings . My left father left all of us 25% of business and she has managed the business. I found evidence and have proof but she has gone into attack mode and is doing anything she can to make me feel like I am worthless and that I don’t deserve anything. I am a widow and I am having a hard time financially. Her reactions are so harsh that I usually back down. I do not have money for a lawyer but I have evidence of the thousands she has put into her personal checking account. Maybe I shall go to IRS.
My ex was a narcissist. I left him several time only to allow him back in my life. He only showed back up when he was broke. He is a invited Felton because he started growing marijuana and got busted. He lost his house, truck and all belongings. He was not in love with me. He ditched me recently and I found a receipt to a hydroponics shop that totaled thousands of dollars. I guess that was the money I gave him to pay his taxes. I kept the receipt as proof of he ever comes after me. I told his family and I was made to be the problem. His mother is a narcissist as well. I am glad he is gone. But I was so in love with this monster that I didn’t see it coming. He has threatened me to stay silent. I will not. He will get himself busted because he has to brag to everyone all the time. They usually self destruct. I am sure all of it will be my fault as well.
My ex Narcissistic schoolfriend who I fell out with permanently( as other friends have) after years of abuse as I could take no more is still tying to gain Status and power, he is in the process of getting a bigger property after he sells his present accomodation as his Girlfriend is doing as well with hers,she doesn,t know what she is letting herself in for,he doesn,t know the meaning of love,he was only ever bothered about sex with as many partners as possible and the kinkier the better,when they get a place together I bet he will take total control over everything, he,s only settled down as everyone has deserted him and he is older now and cannot womanise anymore like he did.
Sam Varkin…. I don’t care about his degrees or other nasty remarks….the msn is totally on point with what he is saying and the psychological impact caused by these people is overwhelming and devasting.
Good job Sam!
My husband is a narcissistic psychopath and I never realized. I was with him for 28 years, and married for 20. I knew he was selfish and a liar but I thought he loved me and I wanted our marriage to last. As a result I worked and earned the family income all of our marriage. We never had children because he never wanted any. He had a stroke in May 2016 and while he was hospitalized that is when all the lies started to come to light. I found out he had used my credit card , failed to pay house taxes, racked up debts that I was unaware of in my name and I found myself in debt over 200,000$. Not only that then I discovered he had secretly recorded me sexually and posted many videos on pornography sites. He had even sent still photos of my vagina to friends of his, people I knew.I ask him why? He says I don’t know.and I don’t remember.I am divorcing him now and trying to recover and I have to start a new free life. I never dreamed there were sites like this nor did I think I would need the support of strangers going through the same hell I have been going through. God is good and I will not let my narcissistic husband steal the rest of my life. He stole enough from me.
If a narrscist find a partner who is pretty and has a wealthy family ” high status ” will this make them happy ? Will they not need to abuse her to keep the status ?
My narrscist ex says he is so happy now ( yet he is still abusing me )
Maybe he changed for her ?
They never change not for no one. You could be the most successful woman ever but all you are to the narcissist is supply. Fat, thin, good looking, ugly, tall, short everybody is in the mix with a narcissist. It’s all about supply, supply, supply. They will never find happiness with anybody because they have themselves why would they need anybody else? You are just a means to an end for them that is all. X
I don’t know why people stay with this abusive behavior? I read some of these comments and shocked to hear people asking if it will get better with age. I thought REALLY? Kids are grown and gone. Yet you want to stay with someone who holds no regard to you? Cheats On you? Abusive to you? Money hoarder? Hot tempered? Manipulative? Thief? And condescending. Why? You gotta have better self respect for yourselves. No. They will never change or get better. Realize that.
My mother is probably a covert narcissist. She values money a lot. I have the feeling that she defines herself with money. It feels to me very logical that money is a substitute for love, warmth, affection for her. I had never had money (she had put me throug a lot). I thought I did not need money. I guess that she had explained already as to a little child that ” I am a bad child when I want property”. In my adult age, I had discovered that she had been stealing my money since ever. First time I have a proof: when I 15. A granduncle should have given to her a little sum of money, he was on his dying bed. Mother never told me. I figured out by accident. With 18, a grandaunt had give me a sum of money to a certain bank account that was disponible by everyone. Mother was indeed in triangulative relationship with the grandaunt and she arranged the situation that way that I did not take the money seriously, I gave her the booklet to the bank account, she knew the passwort. 18 years later, when I started to claim my property back, mother threw me this booklet (I completely forgot about, and I do not remember the passwort). There is not much money there, somebody has been moving money away, 10 years ago. It was her, for sure.
With 28, after the death of my grandmother, I was the heir from the testament. Mother cooperated with the notary (a small town), the notary and mother tried to make to give up upon the heritage. I did not want to give, but I was so scared, so scared of my mother and I thought that I do not deserve the family inheritance (my grandmother did not like me). The notary moved me into signing that I give it up without no right to get anything back, any financial recompensation from my money. The notary threatened me (skillfully overtly) that “I am not in the town, all will take too long, the inheritance cannot be divided geomethrically, thus I would have some cow house only, and furthermore I would have to find again a person to access the value of the property” My mother gaslighted me all those many months during this inheritance procedure how difficult it was to make the property accessment, there are no good people, all only take money, they did not want to come….blabla.
2010 my mother persuaded my grandaunt to transfer her property (that should have been my family inheritance after her death) into the property of my mother (mother only informed me that they both had decided that this is a variant that will save the taxes and that my mother will transfer this property back to me).
I fight back for the family inheritance since 2009, so far: zero. She tricks me differently, she has excuses, she postpones….
I also fight for some money I had sent to her bank account (as she persuaded me as a young adult that having my proper bank account is waste of money and I shall send her my money). I also let her have the money I won in the court procedure against my father. Luckily, I had some other bank account in the country I flee.
So far, I managed to receive some little portion of the money I sent her (I am not sure how much money it was, I was not aware of money at all). Meanwhile she had managed to make me seriously sick and dependent on her, I had to come to her country, to her house and be her source of supply. She managed to lead the smear campaign against me /she loves to cooperate with medical health care agains me, obviously also with lawyers).
Good news: I start to understand the covert narcisstic abuse, I received some money back, some little portion of the property (where she tricksed me with the notary, another one, again: she did not tell me that she gives me back only some 60% of the property and I had no time to read the contract, she together with the notary was so condescending towards me, me I was mistrustful, I just checked whether there is no debt). Couple of weeks later, she infected me, without telling me that she was sick, she let me come to her house….and my ordeal with her had started. I can very well imagine that the fact that I forced her to give me the money back (and she did it as a way of love bombing and punishing me for my independence, as I was just headding to another country, having a good job and my new conscious future, without the narcissist criminal). I am so sad that so many people do cooperate with my mother. Their flying monkeys. Mother plays the sacrifising, victim mother.
I plan a new fight against mother: I want to take away from her another part of the family inheritance she had stolen from me: her love, money, affection (here, she promised already to give it back to me….only she does postpone it since 9 months, different excuses…).
Keep crossed the fingers for me, please.
My N is the covert type, it wasn’t a marriage it was a competition, it was the game of life. The game goes like this, sex? No can’t have that, father? Nope ruin every memory I can. Financial security? Nope, spend and debt, gain N admiration, while using debt to compete as parent(which later pay for yourself later in court ) . House? Nope, never yours, one false accusation out the door you go…all bills in your name. Vacation? Yes but sabotaged blamed, till refuse to go next time. Family? Nope, smeared there, memories destroyed. Friends? Nope, just N pawns triangulation..or sent packing. Joy? Nope won’t have that Peace? Definitely not for you. …..on and on, look back later in life, realize wasted 10-20 years , lost everything, homeless – that would be the sweetest reward for the N…a true victory. On to next victim. ..that basically sums it up…true evil is an N .
I am still trying to find my way after finally getting out of a 12 year relationship with a horrendous Narcissist. A pathological liar. A thief. A womanizer. As I read through the characteristics of this personality disorder, I may as well have put his name in each blank, but the problem is, he has about 10 aliases. His name is all over the internet, many entries on Ripoff Report, a prison record & many many women who have been taken by him financially. I just never had occasion to check him out before, but when his grandiose stories of degrees, accomplishments, extravagance & Hollywood successes just didn’t add up, I started my research. Shock turned to anger then a confrontation that ended it all, not before he had reduced my to a zero, accused me of everything he was guilty of and unfortunately got $10,000 from me leaving me penniless, as well as $100,000.00 & $350,000.00 from my friends as “investments” in his screenplay. I pray one day he will just be a memory and nothing more. May God have mercy on your soul Maverick aka Derek Kelly.
When I was young I met an amazingly handsome, funny, likable, successful guy. He was everyone’s favorite person. Every guy I knew wanted to be just like him or be friends with him. Every girl I knew was trying to date him. As for myself, I had very little interest in him. He seemed nice enough, but something felt “off”.
I was in a bad spot in my life. I was young and came from a broken and abusive household. I didn’t know it at the time, but my mother is a narcissist and I was always her favorite and most trusted victim. The only person that was ever really there for me (my grandmother) had died. And I was floating around in the world aimless and hoping for a better life.
I remember him taking me to fancy dinners and buying me things all the time. He wanted me to have everything in the world. $300 jeans… no problem. A $500 dinner… why not? He had done pretty well as an “actor and screenplay writer” in Hollywood and he was just up here for a few months to visit family.
Fancy dinners and expensive gifts turned into unending praise. According to him I was the most beautiful, smartest, most caring person in the world. I was meant for big things. I was going to change the world. I would make the perfect wife, the perfect mother. I was the only person he had ever even considered dating with any seriousness.
Right then and there I should have run far away. Back then, I knew this wasn’t normal. I pushed him away. The money seemed like too much, the praise too much, and a guy that looked like this had never been interested in me before. On a scale of 1-10 he was a 15, and I sit comfortably (at my very best) at about a 6 1/2 or 7. But my friends and family insisted that I give this guy a real chance. “You’re just too hard on yourself,” they would say. “You just don’t have enough self-confidence. Just enjoy it. Just give it chance. You deserve to be happy. You deserve someone like that.”
I shouldn’t have listened… I should have ran. Instead, I moved in with him. After two weeks he asked me to marry him. No ring, no nothing, just a serious expectation that I would say yes. I said no, that I didn’t know him well enough. He was instantly angry, but I thought that was normal considering the circumstances. After a few months we moved from that apartment to another. Apparently, this one didn’t “fit him” anymore. Little did I know that the least was co-signed by his parents, he hadn’t paid the rent in 4 months, we were being evicted, and his parents were getting stuck with a $9,000 bill that would never be paid back.
One year into our relationship I became seriously ill. You would think that I had some sort of contagious disease. He would barely talk to me or look at me. He was convinced it was all psychological, and that I was making myself sick for attention. He would leave me at home all day and all night while he went to work, drank endlessly, gambled a bunch of money away, and talked to other women behind my back. We never had enough money for me to go to good doctors, he never tired to help me find better treatment, I had to force him to go to appointments with me. When my narcissistic mother would browbeat me for “being an attention whore” he would never defend me. I was dying and utterly alone. I became hateful and resentful. I became scared and suicidal. I cried night after night after night and he just sat there while I cried. Like a stone statue, never acknowledging my pain and how he was adding to it.
Out of shear will and a sense of self preservation I got better. I used every natural means possible, and made sure to find the best doctors so that when I could afford to go that they would actually do something to help me. I made it. But that didn’t seem to matter.
We never celebrated my recovery. I never got to do the things I told myself I would do if I got better. I never went out and lived life again. During the time I was sick, he was in and out of jobs. He would take low paying jobs because they had promised him advancement some day. He got involved in pyramid schemes and get rich quick crap. He took out loans he could “leverage into more money”. He would take whole paychecks to the casino because he knew he was going to “win big” this time. The finances were in complete ruin.
I was better enough to go back to work, and to work I went. I’ve worked so hard for so many years with nothing to show for it. He sustained a leg injury shortly after I went back to work and I have been supporting that for years now. Other than going to doctors, he’s not trying to fix it. He won’t quit smoking, he won’t stop drinking and going out, he won’t eat well, he won’t rest. And so it never gets better… a constant excuse for poor behavior and a constant reason to need my sympathy. He still gambles and racks up debt on secret credit cards. He is cold and unfeeling. He has refused to have sex with me for almost 7 years now. He never takes me anywhere but to bars. I haven’t gotten a birthday, Christmas, or anniversary present in 7-8 years. He’s convinced that my illness made him ill and that his situation is my fault. I had an occluded artery to my liver, he has a leg wound/infection.
I want to leave… but I don’t know how. I’m that perfect age where I’m just about useless as a future wife/mother. I have no degree, I have no great job skills. I wanted to go to college, but we never had any money or made a plan for me to go. All of our expendable income went to his new “money making ventures”. I have okay credit, and low/medium income in a very high cost area of the country. I have no friends left. I have very low but consistent medical expenses. I just don’t see any way out of this.
If I stay, I will cry myself to sleep for the rest of my life wondering “what if”. But if I go, I’m going to be that single childless cat lady, that lives all alone in an apartment forever. I feel like my life is ruined forever and I’ll never get it back.
You know what you have to do and I KNOW you can do it!! You will NOT be the single, childless, cat lady!!! You will take your power back!! NEVER let another person define who you are. I have been where you are. 12 yrs – with an abusing narc who was the closest thing to evil as I’ve ever known. Filed for divorce TWICE and he convinced me to drop it. Cost me 3200.00. THIS TIME? I found out he’d been cheating for a year while claiming he loved me every day — Allowed everyone in his family to disrespect me – including his 17 yr old grandson. That was the final straw. Divorce is final Dec 13 2017.
Sweetie – YOU are only a victim if you allow yourself to be. Do you have any friends or family you could stay with? Your life is only ruined forever IF YOU BELIEVE IT. He is abusing you on a daily basis and convinced you that YOU are the problem. YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. They are mentally disordered people who thrive on chaos and drama. They enjoy it because without it – they feel dead inside.
Good your credit is ok!! The college ship has sailed and that’s ok. I never went to college, either.
THIS is what you do. GO GET A JOB. Low paying? So what. Start putting money away – this will build up your self confidence.. Pay minimum on your medical expenses until paid off.
As long as you stay a prisoner in that apartment – you will stay stuck. Get out there and remember what freedom feels like. “What if” will not help you. You go from TODAY. You move upward and onward….. get positive….. DRY THOSE TEARS and show that abuser that YOU have worth – YOU have value – YOU are worthy!! Let him self destruct. Not your problem.
This is your life. You only have one. It is not a dress rehearsal so please start today. START TODAY. Get a job – get out of that apartment – and show that A** what a strong woman looks like!!!! HUGZ TO YOU. I WISH YOU WELL.. YOU GOT THIS, GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You state you came from an abusive background – that is why you gravitated to this guy. It is what you know… NOW you learn different. Yes, mine was “MR. Nice Guy” who EVERYBODY loved – behind the scenes, he turned into the evil monster we are all familiar with.
NOT your job to fix him – to get him to stop smoking – stop drinking ( MINE wouldn’t either).. If they have a deathwish – OH WELL. We can’t help people who won’t help themselves, anyway. He’s not a little kid. He’s supposed to be a grown man.
That’s our problem. We try to FIX people — we are hopelessly codependent – and that is a dangerous place to be. Not only that – they do NOT appreciate what we do – they DO NOT CARE. They expect it…. Put the focus back on who it belongs…….. YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately I can relate. I got sick a few months ago and he has all but abandoned me, even told me that he will see me when I get well. Me being sick didn’t stop him from calling me while I was in the hospital and asking me to loan him money for his car insurance, rent, and for the rent on a business. I can’t work and what did he do when he got money? Spent thousands on a truck because it would help him make “$1500 a day.” This when I need the money I loaned him to pay my rent and bills.
I now see who he is exactly, and I am devastated. This whole “magical thinking” regarding money is so so true.
right he tricked me into giving money and when I realized it I said just give it back. He a loser ,,to be going around and using women we get told it is our fault and loser like these walk around teaching us a lesson between evil vs good
I stumbled across this site as part of some serious introspection I am going through, and I am grateful to all of you for your posts and the pain that is very evident in the content.
You see, I am the narcissist in my marriage. I did not realize this until very recently, when my wife, from whom I am now separated after 22 years (and whom I fell in love with the first time I saw her), sent me some points she had researched, and the narcissist qualities really rang a bell. Most especially in the areas of money.
Most of you are correct in your assumption that a narcissist is incapable of acknowledging the qualities in their psyche, and I do not think I would have until I had gone through “rock bottom” of my marriage (our issues never involved infidelity) and burned away all of the arrogance that had been clouding my thinking.
I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I am hopeful that I have not always been a narcissist, so I do not always have to be one. Through a very long period of no intimacy (8 years) a failed adoption of 2 very psychologically damaged children, and a decade of my mismanaging our finances, I believe my sense of empathy, especially toward the woman I supposedly loved, broke. It was not always so, and I am in full acceptance of my narcissistic qualities, so I am hopeful I can effect change both toward my wife, and toward other people. Most especially, within myself, as I do not wish to be the person I have become.
The challenge for me, will be the translation of “best of intentions” to actions, which are what really counts. My personal action is to stop and think, hear the nuance of communications to me, and not take every comment that chips at my ego or “perfection” as an attack or criticism.
At the end of the day, I sincerely hope to show my wife the person she fell in love with, and remain that man. If she decides it is too late for her (sometimes we make ourselves so negative that a person cannot get over the PTSD we have installed within them) then I plan to do all in my power to see her established as a financially and socially independent person and I will move on with my life, still hopefully as a better person. I would rather lose her, I think, than have her hate me.
Thank you all for sharing your pain. It has brought me to tears, and both humbled and humiliated me as I examine my behavior over the last few years.
I am so glad to read your comments. It gives me hope. I don’t know if it’s possible that my narc can hit rock bottom, but I hope he does because he has financially destroyed me. I just want him to have the empathy to realize that he needs to do right by me.
Your self insights show that people can change if they open themselves up to seeing the truth. Hope you are able to make the required changes and make your marriage work. Your insight is what all of us involved with narcissists hope for.
same here is has been a struggle to get my money back. What man does that to a woman with a child …it cannot be right
I’m reading all these comments as I too just left a relationship with a Narcissist, and it all seems quite bang on. I had no idea going into it, what a narcissist was but his behavior soon became clear that it wasn’t anything I had experienced before, from the unexpected angry morning texts to showing no sign of remorse for any actions. I’m glad it’s over but will take some time to get over this terrible experience!
This is the first article I’ve seen about the narcissist and money. Fits my ex husband so well. He had himself on a pedestal, was an alcoholic who was totally obsessed with his own importance. He spent more than he owned. He lost us 2 homes. He was a total spend thrift. It took me years to get away from him. He was a vexatious litigator. My legal bills were rediculously high. He was a lawyer and paid nothing on his side. He stalked me while I had dvo’s against him. I was trying to look after our 3 teenaged children and keep them safe while he went bankrupt so he didn’t need to pay me anything. I was married to him for 22 years. I developed severe depression and had a total breakdown and then was diagnosed with PTSD. He had me followed by private detectives who took photos of me. He was my biggest nightmare. I thought he could murder me one day and I’d be a statistic. I was trying to work and he was trying to destroy me. It was always about money. He threatened me so often that he wanted to see me in the gutter. I couldn’t let that happen because I had to be there for the children. Karma will do its job.
My XNH (ex Narc husband)is also a lawyer. I happen I be starting 2018 with him having gotten a job in another city and filing for divorce from me. He was insisting that me and the kids move there with him, but something inside of me (I did not yet know about narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder at the time)was screaming at me not to move. I had gotten very sick and had ended up in the hospital the year before and knew that there was no way that I could survive being isolated away from friends and family with this man and his Dr Jekyll/Hyde behavior along with a sp need child. As I am putting all the pieces together, and trying to rebuild my life and health, I am starting to realize that his father was also probably NPD. Things his mom and his sister have said make me believe this too. And his dad was extremely controlling and critical about money. In fact that is the only conversation he would have with anybody. It was always regarding finances and investing. And he believes himself to be the best investor and would tell everyone else how they should handle their money. This is exactly how my husband behaved towards me. He controlled all the money and gave me an allowance for raising the kids. I had been working as a teacher, but I got in a car accident and could no longer do the job well. I did my best but after our first son was born, my husband did everything he could to undermine my confidence in my ability to work and be a mom. And it was at this time that he became even more controlling with money. He would be angry at me if I would I spend too much money on anything, and by too much I mean over $100. But yet HE could go and spend money however he wanted, without talking to me, because he was the one who made the money. My part in our relationship apparently had no value. And it had no value to him because being JUST A SAHM (a stay at home mom)made no money. But he had already been methodical in getting me to lose my previous job as a teacher. They are so controlling with money because money is POWER!!!
Oh, anon, I feel for you, but the likelihood of your husband changing is slim to none.
I began to research narcissism, specifically Malignant Narcissism (also known as Psychopathy) in an effort to understand my brother. Most recently, I came across an article theorizing a genetic predisposition. Scans have shown that there is a biological difference in the brains of Malignant Narcissists, and that life events can exacerbate narcissistic attributes. More research needs to be done, particularly as problems (both behavioral and genetic) can intensify over generations.
You cannot help him. Your devotion will only make more of a problem for the woman that comes next in his life = and there will always be another woman.
Years of association with a Malignant Narcissist may be unrecoverable, but your life can definitely get better. The best thing you can do is escape. Your Malignant Narcissist has to be completely gone from your life, nonexistent. Leave and create a whole new vision for your futureI wish you well.
My brother is a narcissist too. It’s a relationship I wish I never had. How do you cope when your parents want you to make sure he’s OK? My narcissist text me I’m his worst enemy and that he hates women because of me and my mom. Of course he always needs money as he’s usually broke. Now we have a new problem that will warrant prison time.
I am in a relationship with a narcissistic person, I didn’t know from the start. I have been crying all these years. Though we’ve been together for 5 years but we spend only one month in every year because he stays overseas. We have two kids I have been trying, taking loans and doing a whole lot of stressful things to bring up the kids.
The most annoying thing is this man doesn’t care about the pain I am going through. I have tried divorcing him but both our relatives don’t want us to. Because they don’t know what’s happening.
Am tired and it has affected me emotionally. He has no feelings or empathy for me. Hummm
he’s not gonna change! .. Basically he can’t! not here to hurt you or sell bad stuffs ..
Just built a plan,…. to leave, how sad it sounds, or look,, there’s no answers to this issues so far,,
it’s as if they are watching a black and white TV and you, a colored one, it’s pointless,, focus on the kids and you ..
and find someone that care..
you’ll know when they around..
…. goosebumps!
I date/lived with a female Narc who was the most caring and loving person at the beginning. She slowly had me committed to her in every way. Financially she would manipulate you into buying things, like saying oh sweetie, isn’t this beautiful, on me you would love it. I grew from there, then trying me to sell my cottage, doing her best to keep me away from my kids, all through her mastermind sense of entitlement. She loved receiving sex, but had no desire to reciprocate later on in the relationship. They build you up, then curve your values to do everything for them, and yes, the money, they want to be dined, and they will not do anything to contribute financially. Her money is hers. Once you begin to cut her back, she secretly rebels, eventually you break up, however they have you hooked so it will take time to let go, they immediately meet someone quickly to begin the cycle again. Once you cut back on the finance watch things go downhill quickly. Yes they use there body to gain every advantage as possible as well. They isolate you from everything, you live their world. You are their slave.
I just read a fantastic book , on this very subject, but it deals with narcissism generally- Prepare to be Tortured- the price you will pay for dating a narcissist, by AB Jamieson, on Amazon. Wish it had been available years ago.
Hello to all
In this difficult continuously, I disposition you all
Appreciate your strain and friends