Last Updated on June 29, 2022 by Alexander Burgemeester
If you are currently in a committed relationship with a narcissist, you may think your life is an enduring hell- or at least purgatory.
You might wonder if you stick it out, will he get better with age, will he mellow out?
Unfortunately, there is not a longitudinal research study with a definitive answer.
Do Narcissists get worse with age? One study in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry (F.Stinson et al, 2008) suggested that pathological narcissists might mellow out, as the characteristics of NPD were more prevalent among younger adults compared to older ones.
However, if a person reads the overly-abundant blogs available on the internet, they appear to be overwhelming of the opinion that narcissistic traits worsen as the narcissist ages.
There are a few, less common but still published, accounts of narcissists who have indeed tempered their outbursts and learned to control their verbal abuse and constant demands.
It is possible that mild narcissistic traits may decrease over time but pathological narcissism doesn’t.
So Does the narcissist get worse with age?
Generally, narcissists don’t get more flexible, empathic or agreeable with age.
These are personality traits of NPD and they are highly unlikely to change.
Aging is rough on the ego- it increases dependency and vulnerability, usually reduces status (unless you are Donald Trump or Hugh Hefner), triggers regrets, and increases feelings of envy.
Thus, it would make sense that a disorder involving the ego, such as NPD, would become exacerbated as the individual ages.
Over the course of time, “child prodigies lose their magic, lovers exhaust their potency, philanderers waste their allure, and geniuses miss their touch”.
Time brings the narcissist closer and closer to being average as the gulf widens between his grandiose expectations and his actual accomplishments.
Why don’t they get better?
In order to “get better” the narcissist would have to confess that his behavior and treatment of others was wrong or inappropriate.
The narcissist would also need to admit that they need to change into a more compassionate human being. This will not happen for several reasons:
1) The narcissist is never wrong. “Wrong” or “inappropriate” are words that don’t exist in the narcissist’s vocabulary of self-perception. The narcissist firmly holds the belief that they are right, even if others disagree with them.
2) Compassion and empathy are considered weaknesses. Narcissists regard compassion and empathy as weaknesses because they allow people to be exploited (especially by narcissists). They know intuitively that they can manipulate and control compassionate people.
3) There is no value to the narcissist in being a better person. The narcissist may mimic compassion or empathy if there is something in it for him- something that will lead to obtaining Narcissistic Supply such as attention or others’ esteem. Like the other theatrical acts in his life, this will simply be an actor strutting on the stage for his audience. As the attention fades away, so goes the feigned compassion and empathy.
The Aging Narcissistic Parent
Reading the blogs from children of narcissistic parents, it is clear that pathological parents get meaner with age.
They hold their children hostage through brainwashing about obligation, guilt and fear.
They continue to manipulate and punish. An online example tells of an elderly, malignant mother who after years of wretched care-taking, further punished her children by leaving all her money to charity,
claiming that she would never want to “cripple her children with something as burdensome as an inheritance”. Instead of aging gracefully, the narcissist’s anger increases with time.
They are prone to more narcissistic rages against their adult children. They have no difficulty inexplicably cutting off communication.
Their lack of empathy for their family becomes evident as their children grow older.
When the spouse and children of their current relationship no longer provide reliable Narcissistic Supply, they simply move on to another source to get their fix.
Often they will abruptly abandon the old family and jump into starting a new one.
Children can be a crucial source of Narcissistic Supply; they adore unconditionally, worship their parents and are submissive (when young).
On the other hand, children can take away attention from the narcissist.
They can take too much of what the narcissist wants for himself: time, energy, resources, and attention.
It is not uncommon for narcissists to view their own children as a threat, a nuisance, an unnecessary evil.
All in all, the narcissist makes for a terrible friend, poor lover and appalling parent…no matter what their age.
He or she is likely to divorce many times (if they marry at all) and to end up in a series of monogamous relationships. Narcissists don’t mature with age; they continue to seek revenge for perceived insults, narcissistic injuries, and threats to their superiority.
Redeeming a parent-child relationship later in life is highly unlikely; having a genuine, rewarding relationship with an aging narcissistic parent impossible.
Can aging narcissists return to a normal life?
Sam Vaknin, author of “Malignant Self Love” was asked if aging narcissists could return to a normal life if they were given therapy, counseling, or social support. He answered as follows:
“How can a narcissist return to a “normal” when – by the very definition of his disorder – he has never had a normal life and is utterly incapable of one? Narcissists are mentally-ill. Pathological narcissism cannot be”healed”, or “cured”.
Only certain attendant mental health problems – such as depression or obsessive-compulsive disorder – can be ameliorated or controlled with medication.
Additionally, particularly abrasive, grating, or antisocial behaviors can be modified using talk therapy (cognitive-behavioral being the most successful).
Narcissists rarely seek therapeutic help and they definitely do not listen to advice of any kind.
The narcissist constantly consumes (really, preys upon) adoration, admiration, approval, applause, attention and other forms of Narcissistic Supply.
When lacking or deficient, a Narcissistic Deficiency Dysphoria sets in.
The narcissist then appears to be depressed, his movements slow down, his sleep patterns are disordered (he either sleeps too much or becomes insomniac), his eating patterns change (he gorges on food or is avoids it altogether).”
Dr. Vaknin goes on to cite specific behaviors and feelings that an aging narcissist might display: chronic sadness (dysphoria), no longer finds pleasure in anything (including his former pursuits, hobbies, and interests),
violent mood swings (mostly narcissistic rages) attacks) and a compulsive addiction to alcohol, drugs, reckless driving, or shopaholism.
The overall conclusion is that narcissists do get worse with age. Some would say that narcissists just continue ‘being narcissists’ with the exception that they exhibit more depressive symptoms as they age.
Others would argue that they have gotten away with their actions for so long that they up the ante by increasing their narcissistic abuse and demands.
They have lost their looks, their grandiose fantasies were not supported, their old charm no longer works,
they most likely have had several failed marriages and countless failed relationships, their children avoid them… no wonder they are depressed. Some might say that is poetic justice.
101 thoughts on “Do Narcissists Get Worse With Age?”
Thank you for the link, Alexander Burgemeester. It’s much appreciated!
Perhaps another reason narcissists deteriorate with age is because they’ve had several decades to make massive mistakes, from which they never recover. So many narcissistic people seem to get worse by age fifty. They leave their families, ruin their occupations, take giant risks (lowered impulses as they age) and fail in front of an audience of people they cannot face again. So they leave. Drink. Commit suicide. And we minimize their behavior as a “midlife crisis” when in fact, it’s the full-blown manifestation of pathological narcissism (the NPD). And that is why Kohut called someone with a NPD, “The Tragic Man.”
Any thoughts about the so-called midlife crisis versus the NPD? I haven’t read much about this topic but believe there’s a huge misunderstanding by society. Far better in my view, to consider this behavior as abnormal rather than “validate” it something people do in the 21st century because we’re living longer.
That is exactly what happened to a close friend of mine. Her serial cheating NPD husband got so much worse in 50s. Ended up leaving a 30 year marriage, ruining his career, losing the respect of his children. Besides having new gf my friend found out he is addicted to porn, prostitutes ie.
Yes there is a pattern with NPD men and needing to prove themselves with women. It never ends.
Yes, with women or men, or other….as it seems they are addicted to perversity and hedonism. After introspection trying to recall certain things about this cad, I remembered his older brother had to take Alderral and likely my narcissist took many of his brothers pills…perhaps setting up a craving for adrenaline. It was revelatory as I did not know he was drinking and drugging and having orgies when he went to Atlanta, or NY etc.,. He was consumed and obsessed in all kinds of ways. I am saddened by realizing I have loved a caricature, created and acted out from what he perceived were my desires. In fact, lots of delusions and projection and a host of behavioral tricks to continue degrading me and himself. An inability to know oneself and no regard for others, seeking ones lusts regardless, will come back to destroy him completely. He is a shell already, and has no mojo other than what he steals from others!!! Truly pathetic!
Beth, That is exactly what my NPD did. He left after 35 years, our family as well as our successful construction business. The hurt and damage he has done to our children and family is unforgivable and unrepairable. He left me broke and the business in a mess. I was taking care of his mother (who had demencia) while he was working out of town and seeing a woman half my age. She is younger than our children! He started drinking heavy again after 15 years. Yes, he is still with her as far as I know. Infact, he just recently married her. She herself is a BPD, a drinker and a gambler. My son told me he heard they were fighting violently. No one here at home has heard a word from him in 10 months. All of his self destruction started after the death of his mother.
Can believe how much your story is my story except im 72 and he is 74. We lost our buisness and he cleaned out the bank account and left me poor and his grown children so hurt. He had 2 businesses out of the basment and it looks like a hoarders nest which I have to deal with. He would talk to women everynight for hours and tell lies about me and the funny part about his lies is that he was describing himself to a T. He is living with what used to be a teen age friend of mine from the sixties whom i was a bridesmaid at her wedding. Now she is as bad as him. I also looked after his mother for years until she passed away 3 years ago and then he slowly started abusing me and my oldest boy. None of the kids have any respect for him and we are all destroyed.
Mine left after 27 years and had no idea he was a Colvert . Found out of multiple affairs one lasted 2 years and his addiction to porn and online chats . His eyes are so dark and is completely a different person I don’t know . We are in the process of divorce which is aweful . Our grown kids are speechless and this is not the father that brought them up with morals . He is into sex toys apparently so he must have a new girl that is kinky . He is almost 50 and a firefighter who thinks he is invincible. I’m so blindsided by the entire thing
I feel your pain. My husband died in January (2022) while packing to leave me after 23 years of marriage. He was cheating, but that wasn’t all.
He told me he was all about monogamy, but he cheated before and after we married.
The last 7 years were the worst, because he got fired after a stellar 25-year career at one of the big 5 tech companies. He claimed he didn’t know why, but turns out he started seeing a woman on the federal watch list. Not only did he join her on the list, he jumped right into her family business (fraud) starting with me as his first victim.
He got her pregnant, bought her a Tiffany ring and a house. Guess she liked our house better because he was trying to push me into a condo while remodeling our home so he could move in his new family. He bought a gun when I refused to cooperate, which I doubt was a coincidence.
Near the end he declared himself single on Facebook and refused to go anywhere with us. He also stepped up the verbal abuse and started getting physically violent
There was so much more…he worked as a male escort blocks from his office (just for fun, I assume). He had a 3-year affair with a much older gay man. And slept with literally anyone who said yes.
On the rare occasion he took me out I learned she was always there supervising. She wrote loving messages and cards for him to give me, which I assume they planned to use to position him as a lonely, loving, abandoned husband.
Guess she wasn’t that special because he was making liberal use of social dating/cheating sites and signed up for 6 of them (including Grindr) right before we went to my parent’s home for the holidays.
Apparently he wasn’t getting enough sex because he put her up in a hotel a few blocks from our Airbnb.
I was 6 years older than him and 20 years older than her (I looked younger than him without a doubt and she was no beauty). To add insult to injury he made the security code my birth year and hers.
The worst, however, is that she started cyber stalking me after he died. It’s been 6 months now and I can’t get rid of her.
I wasted 23 years of my life on this abusive pig. He told me I couldn’t do better than him, but I’m certain I couldn’t do any worse.
Karma got him in the end as I inherited the entire estate.
This is happening to me now, exactly as described above! Im lost and dont know how to handle it and scared!! I am in Therapy for two months nows and it was only through therapy that I realized for the first time in over 15+ yrs of marriage what I was dealing with! What an eye opener!! I have children in college mutual businesses and its a disaster!! Thanks to these websites and articles I am getting educated but wish I could find education on how to handle a person with these problems and knowing how to prepare for the destruction they could possibly bring to myself and my children and future!
It’s great you’re in therapy. My aunt is now about 70 and she just could not get help or walk away from her abusive NPD husband. She’s got to live her remaining years asking herself “what if I’d done something about it…? would I have been happier?” It’s sad – we all try not to mention what we are thinking : that she could have had a much happier life by nipping the problem in the bud early on. Don’t waste another day – make a change in your life, because your NPD friend/partner/spouse will never change. The stats just don’t support the possibility that they will.
They never change they only gets worse l have been in this situation for 30 years my husband has abused me and our children he ran our children off now they don’t come around when he is here. One time we split up and my son was staying with me my husband and l were gonna try again my son begged me not to let his own dad come home he told me if l did he would leave we have lived a life of pure hell wish l had left many years ago and never looked back it would have saved me and my children
Oh, i am happy that you are aware of it. Go on…
On kindle buy “Manipulated” by H G Tudor. Read it with 80-90% of the egoism removed – the author claims to be a “highly-functioning” narcissist, and we know we can’t believe a word of that right. Nevertheless, in his desperate need for supply, he gives away a lot. All the leading therapeutic research says to cut him off. It makes him feel pain. If you have to deal with him have a really good time, laugh, joke, don’t react to his thinly veiled threats. He’s really just a big baby, and to prove that, DO NOT ALLOW ANYTHING HE SAYS TO INFLUENCE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT OR SHAME. He won’t take responsibility, he will want you to carry that and it ruins his pattern. Then he will start crying victimising himself and try to gain your sympathies. He will love bomb you, while at the same time devalue you. He can only do this is you don’t value yourself. If you love and value yourself and let go of feeling accountable for his guilt and shame, you will disrupt his pattern. You will also then begin healing. Whatever threats he makes, time stamp them. Write everything he says down. Keep a diary. He wants you to be weak and lost now. The best thing you can be is strong, proud, and knowledgeable in his narcissistic ways. Cut all ties as soon as you can. Dissolve the assets. Don’t get a lawyer. If you show you’re super happy to work this out with him they seem to mirror how you behave. Like a said, a child. Be strong. Educate yourself as much as you can, and get a plan. Keep things civil until you can pull the cord and never look back.
Someone I know (knew) showed more intense outbursts, exhibitionism, and control tendencies when he hit middle age. The old approach of trying to manipulate people into being friends just stopped working when people got wise to it, and couldn’t handle the veiled threats, guilt trips, and shouting matches anymore. People slowly but surely crept away and now he’s feeling it and taking it hard. The man has put so many years into placing unreasonable demands on his peers that they’re just worn out. The decline has begun. He’s even looking worse; tired, older. The downhill spiral happened pretty fast. It’s sad but I still want to be nowhere near the guy.
Its not sad at all when a narc hits the skids, at least not sad to me. Im sick and tired of my fathers n arc abuse and when I see him declining I can only breath a sigh of relief. He has destroyed more than I have time to share right now but take my word for it.
LW, I had to check to see the name on your post. I thought I might have written it! That’s the first time I’ve ever read something by someone else and thought I wrote it. Scary feeling knowing someone else went through exactly the same things as me.
I completely empathize with what you’ve gone through.
“Narcissists are mentally-ill.” If this is true, does this
mean that they are not responsible for being so mean?
This is always my question to experts and God. The amount of destruction they wreak is exponential and personally, I don’t feel they should dance away scot-free because they are “mentally I’ll”
I recently have asked the same question to myself.
In the wake of having a 5 year live in relationship with a 65 year old narcissist alcoholic Cad who ended it in split second when I was getting treatment for cancer 200 miles away at my daughter’s house.
He has all the traits except for the physical abuse but he is also an alcoholic, which is bad enough on its own.
Mental illness, I know he is…!
But he knows what he is doing , he can manipulate with the best which takes a lot of planning.
So in my opinion they should not be given any special consideration for being a Narcissist.
But true to form, they will never take responsibility for their horrible behavior and will always blame, play the victim, always want to win, etc…………………….. you can never get through to them so what’s the use, I believe you just have to stay away from narcissist.
This was exactly what I needed to read today! The pain of having a Narcissistic Mother is horrid! She has gotten worse with age.My NMother rages when asked about anything or even slightly confronted. Many of her past evil deeds are coming to light. My NMother has split the whole family apart…pitting child against child. Going on elaborate smear campaigns, while everyone else is busy living their lives. My N.mother cannot stand when her own adult children spend any time together.She has worked harder than ever to hurt her own family.My Narcissistic mother has resorted to abusing mentally and physically her own grandchildren now.She can dish pain all day and if anyone dare question what the hell she’s doing shell ignore you,but there is always a way she tries to get at you…abuse by proxy! My n.mother enjoys the pain she inflicts and acts more innocent than ever. The gaslighting seems to be brushed off easier as just older person…..but truth is she is meaner. Narcissistic people scare me.I just woke up a few years ago-and I am thankful for websites like this-and my own psych doctor! I am trying to stay no contact and hundreds of miles away! Freedom for sanity!
I am going through this also with my mother. I can’t move away and she lives 3 miles away. Went no contact 2 weeks ago but my sister is pushing me to have coontact. I don’t see the benefit. I wish my mom could just love and respect me. My therapist says this is a fantasy.
Boy do I relate it’s like your reading my email!! My mother works so hard to split my daughters against me, she is getting meaner and meaner by the minute. Thanks for sharing
Omg, reading this has reaffirmed my view that I have been dealing with a NM all my life. I’m now 55 and at point where to protect myself I have to ignore her completely. Not easy when u share a house! I want to move away to avoid contact altogether whilst she continues to treat my brother as a golden boy. He and his polish girlfriend seem happy to lap this up and take advantage of her spiteful behaviour towards me. Yes the will has been changed and my mail tampered with or delayed with his help. A truly hateful situation to be in but the realisation that the problem is hers and not mine is the first crucial step in my recovery. Ageing process not improving the situation since as she becomes more disinhibited the more hurtful cutting remarks pour out from her lively mouth. You have my utmost sympathy – we can but stay strong refuse to engage and hope to survive it in the certain knowledge that she will direct her venomous attention elsewhere x
As a child it was confusing that it was consistently difficult to get along with my mother. Constant fights, yelling, scolding, and nothing I could do would consistently make that relationship smooth. Home from college one weekend, my mother was on the phone with her dad (whom she never got along with) and I could overhear the conversation escallating into full blown rage. When the conversation was over my mother experienced amnesia for half an hour. It wasn’t until this time, in my early 20’s, that I came to the conclusion that it wasn’t me who had a problem; but her. It seems perfectly normal for a family member to not get along with someone, but when it is all of your siblings, 1 of 2 parents, 1 of 2 children, all nieces, all in-laws, many friends who have come and gone, one needs to come to the conclusion and to realize that it isn’t you, but someone else.
This doesn’t make the situation easier. My school of thought is that it is important to not alienate oneself from family, and to support children, parents and relatives through the good and bad times. Continuing to be a party with a relative (mother in this cae) whit NPD is a life frought with not knowing when the next blow up occurs, walking on egg shells, and trying to do the right thing. However, a relationship with NPD is not a winnable situation. It wasn’t until recently that she displayed rage in front of my father. After all, my parents are in their 70’s, and in all this time, my father never saw this rage first hand whe it came to a confrontation with her and me. All her rage eppisodes have always been in private with me so no one else ever saw first hand this behavior. My father was shaken by this behavior.
In my history, I’ve tried many approaches, and none of them work well or consistently. My experience has shown that NPD has gotten worse with age. It may be a habbit, in which older people with ingrained habbits perpetuate, or they don’t have the ability to control/regulate their behavior as well as they once did.
The persons with NPD will make someone else upset, shamed, guilty, or some other emotion. In that light, it is the person with NPD that is sick, and I’m not equipped to say if that sickness is psychological or social, but there are some personality deficiencies which inhibit their ability to be fully functional in life, family and occupation; they are handicapped.
Thanks for the information. It helps make sense of it all. I’m curious about how and why NPD starts. My Dad has it, he’s 74 and I’m 44. What could make someone feel no responsibility their actions? Justification? Survival? They seem to have no conscience. I really would like to understand. If we don’t understand , how can we help our children avoid developing it?
The NPD sufferer I loved committed suicide in the wee hours this morning. I am so sad. He was a very good person, and I can truly say this was an affliction with which he suffered, not a choice he made. I think we need to look more deeply into the causes of NPD. Why do so many NPD sufferer’s have dysfunctional diets, bordering on eating disorders? Why do they sleep so erratically and poorly? My love also suffered with ADHD, and possibly bi-polar disease. He knew all this, he knew he couldn’t change any of it, and he only wanted love. It was so difficult to carry on a lasting connection with him because he alienated everyone – spouse of 33 years, children, siblings, nieces, nephews and me. I didn’t want to be alienated. I hung on with both hands until my nails bled, because I saw what a good person was hiding under all that crap. I thought I could get him to therapy and medication and it would be all better. Now naive! I deserve a firing squad for what I put him through. It wasn’t one-way pain going on. I gave as good as I got, thinking the mirror image of his behavior would stop him. Like he was a dog I was training, or something. People tell me I couldn’t have changed this outcome if I had done everything perfectly, but I’m not so sure. We are all human beings, we all deserve love. NPD is an illness. A very destructive illness, to be sure, and we need to keep in mind that it is destroying them more than it is destroying us.
That is a sad story. Sorry for your loss. I guess there are two sides to every story but most people don’t take your view point. The N personality takes so much without giving that it’s hard to have a relationship with them, add in all the games and manipulations that it becomes very hard to deal with them on any level aside from just letting them do their trippy thing. Your point is well taken though, and thank you for sharing.
Dear Windy. I hope you come across this post. I am a covert/compensatory narcissist. I lost my wife and love of my life to this *thing* that I have, that I am. I sit here, a broken man. I truly believe I love her still, but they tell me I am incapable of love. I still cry because I failed her as a partner. My rigidity, stubbornness, anxiety, depression, sex problems, social problems, avoidance… and that need for constant validation and reassurance… and my child-like dependence. It all took its toll. She left me despite (what I thought) was a huge amount of effort and sacrifice on my part. I know why she left and I don’t blame her at all, in fact I admire her courage. In any case, I am grateful for saints like you who can love even those who society deems unlovable. It gives me hope. I really hope you can find some solace and peace in your journey, and I hope you can find some memories of what this man has done or simply tried to do. He was an extremely lucky man to have a strong person like you not give up on him despite this grave condition. Nobody can ever take away from you what you have done or sacrificed. If all I did was read the “morbid diagnosis” on the net (read: no hope for narcissists, avoid them as follows) I would continue to see no point in trying to better myself. But, so long as there are people as compassionate as you out there, maybe it’s worth a shot. Six months after the tragedy in your family, I hope you’re surrounded with loved ones this Christmas so you can focus on the good things and the people in your life who care about you so deeply. Just… thanks.
I have never heard of a “compensatory narcissist”, what does it mean? To me there were only two types of narcissists: somatic (secure their supplies through sex) and cerebral (not into sex, but into the admiration their audience has for them. Often politicians, artists, actors, etc).
I am sorry, but I have no SYMPATHY whatsoever for narcissists. They are dishonest, cruel, selfish, deceiving, cheaters and they will always be like that. WE are their victims and we need to keep on the look out to avoid more damage being done to us. I was almost driven to suicide, and started having panic attacks, that lasted about 3 months. Would wake up in the middle of the night and had to take sleeping medication to function normally at work. I had to start (and still am on it) anti-depressants for the first time in my life, started drinking, cried almost everyday. While I was crying on the phone while talking to a friend of mine, he had the tv on Saturday Night Live and was cracking up from the living room, a few feet away from me. When I found out he was addicted to porn, I was again having a break-down and he had a sarcastic grin while staring at me.
Let’s break it down ….”I sit here feeling sorry, for “myself”, for “My loss” How dare she leave me, who does she think she is? I was nothing but kind to her, i gave her more of my time than i ever gave anyone else, she should feel honored. I admit, i can be a tad stubborn, show me a Man who isn’t? That “Thing” THEY say i have (NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER…they rarely if ever speak of it) that apparently makes me incapable of Loving another human being, what do “THEY” know? My intelligence exceeds way beyond Par of societies level of understanding, i have wasted far too much of my precious time trying to educate people who then thank me by showing little if no respect. Windy’s story gives me hope in that, not all women are weak, some actually stay loyal to the wants and needs of her Man, forsaking all of their own and everyone else,s….I must admit, she was brave leaving me…even braver if she chooses to come back,!
Compensatory Narcissist? I think NOT!
I fully agree. Absolutely no sympathy from me. My husband of 22 years never felt any sympathy for me after breaking my heart time after time. In fact it seemed as if he enjoyed Seeing me hurt every time I caught him peeping into windows and masturbating. Or finding out that he would stay home just to spend the morning with porn. He delighted in my tears when I found out that he was cheating. ABSOLUTELY no sympathy. Nothing!
Been there…my heart goes out to you
O I have been there ,but had too do a lot of praying too get pass the hurt,but I’m sure I will have the last laugh because he is ageing very fast.
This post is not for Narcissistic Suppl.
Sorry for the typo. I meant to say: this post is not a source for Narcissistic Supply.
No, the very destructive illness isn’t destroying them more than it is us. This comment sounds to me fabricated into a ‘sad story’ that somebody with NPD is telling on this blog. Think of all the attention you’ll be getting from the ‘sad story.’ Often people in relationships with malignant narcissists are also malignant narcissists themselves. And now, no more attention for you!
I have worked enough through the decades to achieve sound mind regardless of the sadistic machinations against me.I can honestly say, the caricature is what I loved…what I believed him to be, but he proved far more nasty, and dangerous. I can see the scared little boy inside, but he is a man now, and his body is as a man…it is time for them to put away childish things…to stop lying at every point, to stop thinking by degrading another they can empower themselves. They are sell outs to themselves…how can I minister to that, one unwilling to keep at it until they are morally upright???? I cannot. I love folks in general, even after Mr NPD….but I despise his cowardice, his fickleness, his opportunistic ways that he is willing to inflict on me…or his children…or grandchildren…or family…friends….work colleagues etc!!! I have no desire to be in a slop pen. Everyone struggles…and for one who lives in fear and uses others like things, there is no patience. As their tongues are twisted and they do not want to be vulnerable as others who risk are. No risk, no win….risk, one may lose, but one may win…without any risk, one is stuck not trying, giving up before they even started… Choices, all about choices….and if one is willing to sacrifice their whole family and sanity for lusts…I have nothing to offer such a selfish hedonist!!! All choices bear consequences, every last one, even the smallest. Onone needs to gain some impulse control, or develop it and apply their will….as generously as they apply it to harm others and they too might be worthwhile in this life! Enough with the tantrums and juvenile fears…put AWAY childish things and utilize your balls.
This is so true. It’s horrendous for them. They are a victim but a perpetrator also. I would do anything to help the NPD I love. I tried but failed. He has destroyed me but my heart bleeds for him
Dont waste your time !
It’s seriously not an illness. It’s a personality disorder. A pattern of clusters (cluster B) with hallmarks of grandiosity, egoism, superiority and a total lack of empathy. Manipulation, lying. Refusal to take accountability or admit to any wrongdoing. These behaviors form patterns of abuse. There located in the “wheel of power and control”, so google the wheel. The wheel identifies behaviors that lead to (physical) domestic violence.
I have just broken off contact with a “friend” of about 15 years who has usually operated this way: he keeps himself surrounded by people with weak personalities who are going to validate every idea he has and simply listen and not respond too much. The only real response to give him is agreement at the very least; praise works too. Laugh at all his jokes, justify his outlandish behavior. That’s the “script”. Trouble is, I’ve outgrown the charade and I’ve increasingly been more vocal in the friendship: sharing my own thoughts and feelings, giving opinions on current issues, even talking about my family. The last time we met I mentioned that I’ve been putting in extra time with my kids (which he hasn’t been able to – or refused to do when his were younger) and of course this sent him into a rage. After he took my innocent comment as an insult, I thought it would come to blows. He shouted a few choice words and I just got up and left. It was that easy. I knew eventually something like that would happen, but I didn’t expect it to happen the other night. Either way, I del lighter than air knowing I don’t have to look over my shoulder knowing that “you-know-who” is going to be breathing down my neck, accusing me of not giving enough attention. To all you folks out there who are in relationships with NPD people who are causing more hurt than help: GET OUT. Just leave. Don’t look back. You’ll thank yourself for it. You are dealing with a formerly abused child who is still a child, but in a grown up body. Have a good life, free from the unnecessary hurt from dangerous people.
Amen to that! I had to cut off my former NPD bestfriend after 22 going on 23 years of so called friendship. I went no contact with her and have not looked back. I’m so thankful to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ that they let me know that she was not right and everything is about her. It was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
Same, same, same. I was married for 34 years to an unbelievably abusive man. The same dynamic I read in the accounts of others, over and over. I ended up thoroughly beaten down, no self-esteem or self-regard, emotionally wiped out and broken. Some pretty intense pschiatric therapy put all into perspective for me but just because you are off the battlefield doesn’t mean you don’t continue to be affected with what you experienced. Every now and then, after 5 years, I feel the physical and emotional pain his comments about my body, hair, character and personality etc caused, but it’s more balanced now with an understanding of his NDP and that it’s not something I caused, or something I could have cured or even continued to have lived with without the extreme mental and emotional anguish driving me into a sanatorium.
My former spouse made the end of the marriage as humiliating, excrutiatingly painful and degrading for me as possible. He walked out of our home one day without warning, while I was at work and joined the household of the latest of his women. He told each of our grown daughters of his decision to end the marriage and his reasons why, giving him the opportunity to set up his leaving with more of his ‘poor me’ stories. He asked one of them to call me at my office and ask me to contact him. It was when I called him that he dropped the bombshell.
There followed a period of utter pain, desperation and desolation. All told about a year. Home gone, house gone, children had long ago been taken onside by him so gone also. All gone. Even the family dog.
Every now and then it would come to my attention some of the reasons why he had been forced to seek happiness elsewhere, how I had failed him in every which way. And, of course, how hard he had tried in the relationship and the marriage despite my obvious mental health issues and character defects.
He moved his girlfriend back to our home town after about 5 months, demanded a divorce, married the woman, and began a period of high profile, local hero activities. Glorious attention. Then came the relationship dramas, the breakups and separations, and finally the face-saving relocation to a northern Canadian city so that his wife “could grow her career” as a personal trainer. No sooner were they ensconced in their new home when they separated. No word as to whether or not it stuck.
I remain estranged from my children, initially feeling that this was an opportunity to recover and become the grown, whole and healthily functioning woman I’d always wanted to be, and awaiting the time when they might want some contact. However, one of my daughters has two small children now and although she electronically sends pictures there remains a distinct coldness, very little verbal or written communication. No contact with the others.
I could cry when I think of the damage this man has done over the years. I can identify many people in our past that he has crushed or separated us from when they were obviously “on” to him. Our acquaitances were always weak, vulnerable people, those that he was sure he could fool with his lies and stories, and that he could fool with his puffing and huffing and bring on the wafting attention he craved.
I was always afraid and anxious that the marriage would end badly, that I would lose my children and that he would make sure he left me with as little of our assets as he could. And of course that’s what happened.
Understanding that there was never going to be any other outcome strangely helps. It was always all beyond my control, there was nothing I could have done except have someone wave the biggest, reddest flags right in front of my face when I first met him.
My husband was just like Christine’s husband. He was violent abuser, abused the children and an alcoholic. The 3 adult children have bonded with him and after being severely hurt by them, I have finally decided to disown them for my mental health. I was the one who filed for divorce after 45 years and he has such rage that I left a superior man like him. I am almost divorced now and finally learned that he damaged me badly but life goes on and I am getting a lot of good therapy. This is the best thing I have done.
I would so much like to email both Christine and Linda as my story is similar Forty one years of living hell and I am finally deciding to leave. Would you pass on my message to these ladies and find out if there is a possibility of my writing to them.
After 25 years with my N, the breaking up and getting back together was insanity on my part. He would say or do something that always made it appear to everyone that I was a psycho bitch. One time when my children were still in elementary school he degraded me, we fought but instead if him moving out, my children and I left with no money, only the clothes we were wearing, we were homeless . We stayed with my sister and her two children and eventually we got a small apartment and we were happy. Six months later my N told me what I wanted to hear and we were all happy til it happened again. My advice is Open your eyes and get away and never have any contact with your N. It’s hard at first, but as time goes by, it becomes easier to move on
Christine, this is an echoe of my life. I thought noone on this earth could lose everything – including my children when they are still alive – I would go without clothes so I could them the best of everything – I knew there was somehting wrong with my exhusband but had no idea as I didnt even know this illness had a name till recently – now everything makes so much sense – it seems impossible but his happened exactly to me. I used to look at my children when they were young and think so deep down, they will always be with me, I am their mother. I can’t believe they took his side, he smeared my name across the world; I did not even get the photo albums of my children – nothing – everything gone.
Yes, they get worse with age! I’m 48, my mother is 82. She’s currently in an assisted living facility. I’m so relieved to know after years of narcissistic abuse from her and much counseling with pastors and psychologists that I’m not the one with the problem! I left home the day I turned 18 because of her. I had a wonderful father and if it weren’t for him I don’t think i would have turned out to be ok. My mother would always need to be the center of attention with my dad. She would always tell me and my only sibling, my sister, that she always comes first with our dad. She always had to have her hair done once a week, have the best clothing & shoes money could buy, wouldn’t never be there to help us be involved with any activities, would never spend time talking with us or helping us with lifes problems, never let our friends in the house, etc. Much of the typical things narcissistic mothers do. She was simply only there, from what I recall, and the things I ever remember her saying to me was you can do better than that… no matter what I ever did. She, on the other hand was the opposite with my sister… the trouble maker who in her eyes, I’m learning later in life, was her narcisistic supply & today still is. My sister will kiss her ass for anything, but not me. I was a good daughter, made good grades, graduated early from high school and have now 3 children 29, 25 and 18 yrs. old. I’ve been married 30 yrs. and am pretty much the one making sure she gets proper care, do all of her errands for her and all the while my sister finds excuses why she can’t do much of this for her. Oh and by the way, my father died of cancer when he was only 52 and my mother blamed me for it saying i caused his cancer because of the stress i caused him when i moved out! In her mind she thought stress causes cancer… wrong… his smoking 3 packs a day caused his cancer! Needless to say she messed me up bad, I’m the best mom i can be to my kids hoping and praying everyday they won’t ever feel about me the way i feel about my mom! Because of the fact she is so self-centered she shows very little interest in my kids and they never want to visit her! She has dementia and wound up in this facility on Medicaid, because she gave all the money she had to my sister & her 2 daughters… Wow, she’s miserable and as strange as it may sound, I don’t think she’s happy unless she’s miserable. I have no relationship with her, i only do what i do to honor my dad. He would do it for her if he were alive. Blessings to all who can’t escape a narcissist… but if u can run as fast as you can away from them… they won’t miss u anyway :/
Right on the money! Get out…they do not change as they don’t know they are narcissists. Everyone else is the problem. I ended a long term friendship of twenty-five years, we lived in different states so I wasn’t really exposed to her “bad” side until my life seemed better than hers (in her mind). As long as you remain an equal (or lower) they will let you be, but when their insecurities arise you will become a target to destroy. It isn’t even worth a discussion once they turn on you, just walk away. Delete, avoid, and never speak to again as they will try to reel you back in. Once you do it, oddly enough a huge weight has been lifted that you didn’t realize you shouldered.
Maryanne, why do you take care of your mom? I’ll let my N parents sit in their poopy adult diaper. Theses types always give others a way out. They think my brother & sister will take care of them, but these two are selfish like our parents. It won’t happen. I won’t do it either. Why do you help your mom. You’ll be better off without her & she failed to earn your devotion.
My siblings are their flying monkeys, so they still get together for dysfunctional drunk family Christmas & other shouting match holidays, I stopped going over a decade ago my dad has a holiday meltdown on each one without fail. I go to a friends or have my own small version. It’s nice to have them without blowouts.
I got luggage for high school graduation. Luckily as I child I was always activity oriented so my exposure to my N parents was as limited as could be, recently reading articles & forums like this has given me the words to understand what I always saw as behavior that was beyond puzzling.
I have recently separated from my partner who definitely has some of the traits of NPD. Over the past 13 years I have been to hell and back and I have to say he has definitely got worse over time.
He has alienated everyone around him he has no friends apart from a couple of work colleagues and he speaks to his parents about twice a year. He doesn’t care about anyone.
He had a very difficult first marriage with an extremely controlling woman who caused the breakdown of the relationship with his parents and sibling and also resulted in him losing friends.
As a result this has made him into what he is now. When I first met him his phone was full of girls numbers and I should have run a mile but i was smitten. About a year into the relationship I found out he had been texting other girls but nothing had happened with them – I ended the relationship but he begged me to take him back and I did.
About 5 years down the line we ended up having a child, it hasn’t all been bad we have had some amazing times but he craves the attention of other women and after leaving him twice and returning, I found out 4 years ago he was having a full blown affair, this completely crushed me i moved out and my family refused to have anything to do with him ever again. He cried and begged for us to go back and 6 months later we did. I could not forgive this and things between us were horrendous he had changed to the point where he was a stranger absolutely cold no and filled with hatred. At this point I made the decision to move 80 miles away (he was still messing around on his phone). Us moving really hurt him he cried for weeks and begged us to stay but we left. However I have still been seeing him he has been coming to our house always turning up for school sports days, concerts, fairs etc and we have been on holiday together.
However he sent me a text obviously meant for someone else and I have now discovered he is on a dating website and seeing who knows how many girls. He hAsnt spoken to our child for 2 weeks when I confronted him about the dating website his question was ooooh are you on there too? We’ve had no contact now for 3 days and he does not care about the pain and carnage he has caused. At least I am away from him and don’t have to witness it. But his behaviour and self worth is definitely getting worse – he is in his 47 years old and is a good looking guy with a great physique and thus is what he uses. I thought he would have grown up by now but he is worse than ever and to put himself On a website where my friends may see him – he obviously doesn’t care an ounce about me!!!
He never ever used to be as cruel as he is now and now it appears yes abandoning outer 8 year old child too!!
Luckily I have more than him as I have friends and family abc as much as he’s tried to put me down he hasn’t succeeded!!! I’m better than him and I know it!!! Still hurts like hell though as he’s destroyed our family and left me as a single mum without a care in the world while he seeks his thrills from cheap women!!!!
Likely, that first relationship of his…. with that extremely controlling woman who singlehandledly broke down all his relationships, well, I’d lay a million to one that she suffered the same as what you’ve suffered through him.
Hahaha my thoughts exactly and his new girlfriend will be told your a crazy ex who cant move on he might add in a little comment about you being a control freak
I think one of the reasons NPD’s age poorly is they live a fantasy that they must expend tremendous amounts of energy maintaining & then even more to manipulate those around them to reinforce this. They also have the truth as based upon real events that runs parallel that must be internally held in check too. The rest of us basically have a realistic version of truth that is simply remembered.
18 months ago I left a 32 year marriage with the encouragement of my adult children after years and years of craziness and control and sadness. I’m hear to say they NEVER get any better and most definitely seem to get worse with age. l have been left with next to nothing he let our business run down no one will work for him because of his npd friends have abandon us as did most family members. He made it impossible for anyone to be around him. Most people don’t understand what this mental illness is so they think he is just a a……hole. Things are a bit lonely for me now however I was probably more lonely when we were together from being isolated. The good news is my family has come back to me and I can actually do things like just going to the shop without the horrible consequences. Sadly my kids have been affected from having a narcissistic father especially my 27year old daughter who is terrified to have a relationship with any man as a result of seeing him drunk and abusive every single night of her life. I strongly suggest if you are in a npd relationship…..RUN…..don’t wait until your in your mid 50s and a lot of your life has passed you by. It took me that long to build up my broken self esteem to leave….things are finally getting better.
I ran and I don’t regret it. I did try and try to help me, but as everyone here knows, there is nothing we can do that can FIX the Ns.
You have described most if my life. Rebuilding us the hardest part. All that wasted time and energy just fixing all his destruction and …fixing me
Thanks for all the sharing
I strongly believe that ndp give out a certain vibe that can be picked up easily when u meet another one the 2nd time.
It happened to me
I was able to detect and discern smhw when he was next to me for the 1st time
The kind of strange presence made me really uncomfortable
Then all the self-centered reasons and self-preoccupation plus pretension just such a put-off
He thot he was charming
He only want to attract attention
No substance of gd character
Only outward vanity
Hollow on the inside
Simply too scary for any investment of relationship
At the end the regrets, pain and sorrow , nightmares and destruction will only lead to severe depression and many other psychological/emotional issues
Dont be deceived and dont give your heart and life away to ndp
Their charm is harmful and will ruin you.
At age 65, the question I am asking is not whether the narcissist improves or declines with age but whether the “victim” ever learns to stop being the enabler to these characters that other people with firmer boundaries would not give the time of day. Most of my close friends–the women I admire–would not spend five minutes with the men who I have allowed to make me miserable. At 65 I am seeing a 73 year old man who has temper tantrums and stops talking when I ask a question he doesn’t particular like (“What time do you want to go to the movie?”
Discovering these posts and pages and pages of insightful analyses of the narcissists and his feeding habits, has opened doors of understanding not only about them but mainly about myself. I knew I seemed to be a magnet for toxic relationships. But couldn’t figure out way. Thought it was because I was chubby as a good and didn’t know my father.
These posts are helping me understand that I was drawn to these characters because was was unable to fully know and embrace me. I am unique, beautiful, funny and a terrific cook. I have no more time to spend with people who take pleasure into trying to kill my joy.
Knowing and loving yourself is the best way to rid yourself of these blood sucking
Do they get worse with age? Yes, they do. My mother is 94 and the amount of venom she spews is unbelievable. However, I went NC for years ago and IF I hadn’t done so, I think I wouldn’t be here.
And….the family influence of a pathological narcissist affects ALL other members and of course we have that well known issue of Golden Children and a Scapegoat. The Golden Children become narcissists in their own right when they are trained by the Parent Narcissist. It’s really a dead end for these GC but they don’t recognize it. They never really achieve independence, emotionally and intellectually. They are so infused with fear of rattling the old bat (and having her rage turn to them) that they are slaves within this context. The scapegoat? Well, I was one for 60 years, but I did develop a painful independence…always being told that I was ‘inferior’ by the Narcissist and her budding narcissists
I had to work that issue out over the years and peel the stinky onion!
Elderly narcissists have no REASON to change: in fact, the wiring is so twisted by their constant and uncritical behavior that they just stew in their own juices: fantasies of battles they never fought, victories they never had. They really rewrite history and this is part of the syndrome of Narcissism.
And they lie.
What can you do? Nothing. You must leave these broken people to themselves and their (dwindling) narcissistic supply. Save yourself. Run.
And don’t expect a death bed confession or apology. Expect only more abuse because even death (which my mother is very, very afraid of….) will not bring any change in their disorder.
Narcissism is a mental illness. We can clean it up in many ways to ‘excuse’ it, but it is not something you can change or cure.
Amen. I am 65 and until recently had no idea what I was dealing with. I spent 2-1/2 months being by my mother’s side while she went through 10 days of hospitalization and went to a nursing home for rehabilitation. With a number of life threatening conditions, her heart doctor suggested she be on hospice. I arranged for it and took over setting up the things needed to insure her bills were taken care of and the mortuary was arranged. Did I say I lived in another state and my only sibling — a sister — lived in the same town as her. By the time I left, my sister had convinced her I was killing her, the home was drugging her, she wasn’t dying it was just her attitude, she didn’t need hospice as everyone at this facility was put on hospice, and she needed to be in an assisted living facility not a nursing home. She is now there, my sister, knowing there is money to be had, is her knight in shining armor, and I have been removed from her will and told she never wants to see me again. Thank goodness! She also told a friend of eight years who had been by her side day and night listening to how abused she was by her children, was told that my mother never wanted to speak to her again. I look at these actions as our salvation. We no longer have to try to please an insatiable appetite that never can be pleased enough.
In my case the scapegoat (my husband) and a golden child (his brother, perpetual under achiever) became pathological narcissists. Their mother was the narcissist.
my NPD spouse is 65 years old and who has had ED for 7 years. Prior to that he cheated on me for 30 years, primarily having sex with married women before work at his health club. His best friend told me 3 years ago after getting to know me. My spouse made the mistake of bringing someone from his separate life into our life together. David told me so I could go and be tested for any diseases my spouse may have given me. My spouse slept with any woman who said yes. David told me, however, that no one wanted him and he was dumped by all of the women after they were done using him for sex. Those women who were infatuated with him.. dumped him after two weeks. His narcissism was apparent after two weeks… his lack of empathy… his refusal to “date” them…his inability to have a “discussion”… his need to “monologue” and only talk about himself… His only interest in them was his need to flirt … seduce and the conquest (sexual intercourse)…the ultimate narcissistic supply…He is psychologically and emotionally abusive to me. I have 4 autoimmune diseases so i cannot afford to leave and support myself. His fear of medication prevents him from taking viagra etc. At 65 years old, his looks are fading, his muscular body honed from lifting weights is no longer due to the pain of arthritis, the skin on his abs is loose and sagging, the tissue in his male breasts is no longer hard muscle and the skin covering them now is soft tissue that is sagging. The interesting thing is that he still spends lots of time in front of the mirror…blind to the changes. When i point them out, he looks at me with the “deer in the headlight” look, which i now understand is “dissociation” (Schore). He is unemployed with no chances of ever getting back to corporate america. He has no friendships. His penis no longer works so he can flirt and seduce for narcissistic supply but he can no longer “finalize his conquest with sexual intercourse”….He still cannot “date” because he is married to me. My spouse came home every night for dinner for 30 years so he wasn’t “dating” the women he was having sex with. His narcissism is not getting worse, nor is it getting better. He is just more depressed at 65 years old. I stand up to him now… but know that I need to give him a certain level of narcissistic supply or he will leave.. and I would not have enough money for the basics to live..so I pretend to believe his lies that he didn’t cheat on me. My family also told him that they believe that he did not cheat on me because they know that i cannot afford to leave… We all pretend to believe the “honorable husband” act he puts on but know that he had a different “personality.. a different first name” a separate life that none of us knew about and still would not know about if David had not told me the truth 3 years ago. I have good friends… a good therapist… and great doctors trying to help me medically. If my health ever gets good enough to “engage” with the world again… I am going volunteer and work again with battered women…. and write my book… how i went from living with a narcissistic mother to a narcissistic husband….I wouldn’t be able to publish it however, until i get a divorce or I outlive my husband.
Thought I would call attention to one fairly good study that has been done on what happens to folks with narcissistic traits when they age. It’s in an academic journal called Journal of Research in Personality, volume 45, 2011, pp. pp. 479-492. I’m an acemic myself, and I know the author of the article, by chance, can vouch for its being rigorous. It’s part of a longitudinal data set that tracked a few hundred community folks from ages 34 to 70. They met with each person 4 times, have narcissism data on the first three meetings, have other personality data from all four meetings. Record stuff like marriages and divorces, job advancement, demotion, etc. It’s not an easy read for a novice but it could be studied over days. If you happen to get it and want to ask me a technical question or two or three, I’d do my best to help you understand. Academics distinguish between aspects of narcissism that are adaptive or at least not hurtful and those that are maladaptive. In this study, the maladaptive scales were Willfulness and Hypersensitivity. Everybody was measured on both these types, but if someone is high on one, they’re usually not above avg, usually a bit lower, on the other type. Willfulness is characterized by external grandiosity, exhibitionism, partner’s ratings of a tendency to show off, pushes and tries to stretch the rules, self indulgent, pampers self, and of course, manipulative/ bossy to others. This is the familiar type of narcissism Then there is the Hypersensitive type. These are “thin-skinned”, hyper sensitive to slights, perceive everything as criticism, insult, and are highly defensive, unable to acknowledge their faults, full of resentment, more introverted than extroverted, by comparison to Willful. These folks carry stress and anxiety, some depression, more than most people and more than the Willfull type. Their partners/ family see them as highly suspicious and withdrawn. Now, the mean ages at which the people were evaluated for narcissism were 38, 45, and 58. Among all evaluees, Willfullness was slightly higher than Hypersensitivity at the first meeting. willfullness went up ever so slightly at age 45, and came back down to about where it was at age 58. Hypersensitivity, however, decreased by more than half at age 45 and was on the floor at age 58, almost at zero. Keep in mind that this is data on the whole sample, and the vast majority of these people are not high on maladaptive narcissism of any type. What is called Narcissistic Personality Disorder is thought to have a national prevalence rate of maybe 2%, maybe as high as 5%. I’ve seen studies (one study, actually) indicating that as many as half the people who met criteria for the disorder didn’t meet it two years later. But, it’s thought that some people cycle in and out. It’s really expensive to do national sudies with high enough sampling to be sure.
My NPD ex-boyfriend’s addiction is to Meetup. They never include this one in the list of addictions, but it’s his biggest and main one; it allows him to go to many different events in many different groups where people don’t know of how cruel he really is. He can pass himself off as kind, gentle, charming, when he is anything but.
Oh man, it’s a haven for the manipulative who desire some form of social setting to function as a stage. My ex GF got into this, they’re basically fools, the event she was going to was a hike at night all urban people. Growing up in the wilderness of the pacific north west I know you don’t just trek out into the trinity alps for a nighttime stroll on a crumbling shale rock mountain of many miles. People go unprepared & unfamiliar into the wild spaces all the time … many never come back. In even the small mountains temperatures can plummet at night, large predatory animas roam some shy away from people others eat them. But attention is what she craves so much the event place & time wasn’t thought over twice. She was insulted by my non supportive response. Then was insulted by my re response that was like great idea what could go wrong with a bunch of inexperienced people on a advanced hiking trail on an October night?
My comment didn’t go through before, so I’m trying again:
My recent ex, a pathological narcissist, has as his addiction going to meetups. No one mentions this when talk about addictions of the narcissist, but it works perfectly: he can go to frequently to many different events in many different groups, duping people who don’t know his true cruel nature.
I know they monsters. I know hey can not be help… but my love is dragging me back to one of them already 18 years through pain, misery and emotional devastation, forcing me to pity her… Maybe I am a masochist, maybe thats what they call insane loyalty, but in the end this feeling of love saves me from being finally ruined and gives me strength to overcome the destruction of that grief… Five years of studying the subject of Social Personality Disorders says my Narc cannot be help. Period. But my undying love for her keeps dispatching hope. Pretty sick, is in it?! ; ))
I know they are monsters. I know hey can not be help… but my love is dragging me back to one of them already 18 years through pain, misery and emotional devastation, forcing me to pity her… Maybe I am a masochist, maybe thats what they call insane loyalty, but in the end this feeling of love saves me from being finally ruined and gives me strength to overcome the destruction of that grief… Five years of studying the subject of Social Personality Disorders says my Narc cannot be help. Period. But my undying love for her keeps dispatching hope. Pretty sick, is in it?! ; ))
I have lived with a narcissist (a psychopath) for 18 years, and I thought I may add my 2 cents here.
I think even this article is “too kind” with Ns. Even though I lived with a psychopath and not a “simple” narcissist (there is a difference, Narcissists just don’t care about hurting people while getting supply, while psychos even enjoy it), but the narcissistic element is the same.
IMO Narcissists can never “return” to a normal life, because they never lived one. As a matter of fact, normal, to them, is what they do. To exploit, use, hurt, and manipulate human beings.
Even talking about a narcissists “changing” or going to therapy, even talking about the possibility that a narcissistic “father” or “mother” is changing, is an illusion.
We tend to see them from our human perspective, which is misleading. I did the same for years, I was mad at him, when I realized what he is, I was shocked, I threatened him, intimidated him, until I realized that I am not talking to a human being.
They are emotionless, heartless robots. Everything else we see in them is a projection of our own or other human beings’ qualities.
“I threatened him, intimidated him, until I realized that I am not talking to a human being.” Which one are you claiming to be again?
I was married for 40 yrs to a NPD and it was a living hell. I gave him 9 beautiful children who he never really cared for properly or took an interest in unless it was to feed his delusions of grandeur. I was constantly trying to figure out how to resolve problems which seemed to be unending only to realize in the end he wasn’t the slightest bit interested in solving any problems but only in living his NDP life for himself alone and the latest fad each week. I don’t even want to go into the details its just so sad. The saddest thing is realizing all those years he was just lying to me about loving me and it was just for what he could get from me, eg sex, money, narcissistic supply ect.
I feel the need to comment on this. I left my 57 year old NPD fiancé last summer and he is already in a new relationship. This woman is his age now (I was 17 years younger), but she is the same “mold” as me and all of his other women: long, blonde hair, European looking face, small build, etc. This new one has plastic surgery to stay looking young and to keep her body youthful. She seems like a nice person, albeit pretty phony as well as most of her FB pix are of herself and she is always modeling.
It hurts to realize that I have become “one of the rest” of his used ups after being with him for 4 years, literally 24/7.
Ugh, it hurts to write this, but I am needing to heal and I would like to help others that might be in the same boat.
I’ll call my fiancé “Ben”.
First the good: He will put you on a pedestal, charm you to no avail, compliment you, make you feel like you finally found your best friend and soulmate, take you to expensive restaurants, trips across the country, shopping, etc. etc. He will reel you in to his awful, abusive child hood, making you feel so bad for him that you would do anything to help him and save him. He will call you the love of his life, that it was an incredible journey to get here with you and that he would do it all over again just to spend one day with you. He will make your self esteem soar higher than the mountains of his Colorado home (or yours as he will tell you it is). He will lead you down this fantasy life, making you think it is all for you, the queen of his life. He will suck you in deeper and deeper into his world, slowly taking over your life like a thick fog coming in, insisting on opening doors for you and putting you on a pedestal.
He was in the used car business for 40 years and got into real estate. He will claim he is a multi millionaire, but his tax return tells a different story– $120,000–so he isn’t hurting, but he isn’t wealthy. He uses his real estate (hotel, bars, 4-plexes) as marketing tools to secure his N Supply. His hotel is owned by 3 partners and just makes enough money to pay for itself, it almost went bankrupt and I did the best I could to help him through that crisis (among way too many to count), even telling him to sell it before it went back to the bank.
My son was living with me (in my aunt’s cabana) and Ben became my knight in shining armor as he helped us to get an apartment and on our feet. My son desperately needed to get into a school in order to stay with me otherwise he was going to have to move back to his dad’s out of state. Ben knew I needed this help financially at least to get him started, but he NEVER offered as in hindsight it was all part of his plan to get me to himself. He bought me things for the apartment including a bed, but my son slept on an air mattress, etc.
The day my son said he was moving back out of state to his dad’s broke my heart. I called Ben and after I told him, he immediately burst into loud sobs saying how much he loved my son. When I dropped my son off at the airport, Ben appeared, swooped me up, and took me “home” to his place and I never stayed in my apartment again. Soon after that, he had me quit my job to travel with him; it was quite the whirlwind. I didn’t even have time to process anything, ever. It just moved at light speed.
Now the bad:
Ben was married twice before me and had MANY, MANY, MANY relationships, affairs, massage parlor visits, and over 200 Dominatrix visits for his BSDM addiction while he was married. The world revolves around him and his needs.
He reeled me into his BSDM lifestyle ever so delicately and it was like I became a different person and slowly started losing myself into his world. He showed me the porn he would watch that was so violent and disgusting that it wasn’t even legal in the U.S. It was of women being machine-raped, tied up, gagged, tortured, etc. He had 2 rooms upstairs dedicated to this stuff: It was all leather, crops, whips, electric devices, toilet seats, straight jackets, enemas, tons of sex toys, blonde wigs, hand cuffs, chains, zip ties, ankle sticks, stock holds, examining tables, medical supplies, suppositories, etc.
I have never even seen this stuff before, much less touched it. I do believe in hindsight that I was so shocked into submission to all of this, and that I was afraid of who he was or what he would be capable of doing that I just went along with it so as not to create an enemy. PATHETIC, I know, but I felt so horrible for him and what must have happened to him in his childhood to make this “good soul” become so unbelievably damaged and that just ignited the rescuer in me to heal him and help him come to the light side of life.
God, was I a fool.
He had me meet his counselor (one that coddled him and had NO IDEA of the sexual stuff until I told him about a year later to which his jaw hit the ground in disbelief so obviously Ben never talked about the real issues, but rather used this counselor for Narc Supply) Ben is INCREDIBLY intelligent, slick, and can sell an Eskimo an ice cube. He is VERY suave and full of charisma and sexual prowess and gets whatever he wants; he always wins.
Underneath it all, he is a very fragile, frightened shell of a little boy who has to have security cameras, a locked bedroom door, an alarm system, and sleeps with a loaded gun.
He is cunning, a self-proclaimed master manipulator, but is a “nice guy” that outsiders feel sorry for, except for some closest to him that have warned me about him and of which I finally did start taking heed after there were so many red flags and my gut screaming at me and when I could feel that I was really on the verge of completely losing myself. I couldn’t marry him. My gut wouldn’t allow it.
Things started to erode. I would try to bring up how I wasn’t into that sexual stuff and would silently hope that he would stop it. He would just get very defensive about it and so I just kept on thinking maybe I was the one with the problem as after all, this is in New Orleans so maybe that is just their way of life?
Time continued to pass, my son would come for visits and when he was around, I would feel more confident in speaking more of my mind with “Ben”, but when my son would return home, I was–what I know now–afraid again.
I was consumed with guilt over not being in my son’s life (he was 17 now), but it still haunted me daily. Ben couldn’t care less. I was looking at apartments in my son’s home city for if I wanted to visit for a couple weeks here and there and I didn’t close the comp window. Ben saw it and confronted me and was not happy. I blew it off like I was just thinking stuff. As long as you walked on egg shells and constantly appeased Ben and obeyed him, things were good. If you disagreed with him, watch out.
My mom died unexpectedly in 2013 and I could no longer keep up the act. It completely devastated me. Ben was there for the funeral and took me for a drive, but he expected me to be over this in two weeks; it was time to go to Colorado again. I pretty much was shocked into reality and said to myself that all of his sex crap had to go; I could no longer participate. That was a war of an argument when I told him. He yelled at me as to what I wanted and I told him I wanted him to burn every bit of it.
My son was going to go into the navy and I flew home to see him off. Ben did burn a portion of his stuff while I was gone and he told me he did and that it was like a spiritual cleansing for him. FINALLY!!!!! Finally we could start our lives together. When I returned after seeing my son off to bootcamp, I discovered that there was still a huge rubbermaid tub of that stuff that he couldn’t let go of. I let it go for now as he was so addicted to his “healthy” addiction where he wasn’t hurting anyone or himself. I’m so confused at this point.
A couple of months passed and my son ended up hurting himself by pushing himself too hard and he needed to have surgery and recuperate and wanted to come by me, mom. It took me 2 weeks to get my nerve up to ask Ben and when I did, he retorted, “For a visit!”. When I explained that it would be longer than that, he screamed, “That could break us up!!!” I said what a selfish thing to say and he called me a “bitch” for calling him selfish. One of many temper tantrum outbursts…
My son drove down and Ben put him in a roach hotel for his stay over on the way. He then fixed up the spare bedroom and sent my son a picture, artificially stating that “his” room was ready after the hell he put me through. After my son arrived, Ben saw his garbage in his room wasn’t emptied and threw a fit (to me when my son wasn’t in earshot).
Ben bought another house during this time and moved out, which meant my home of 4 years was going to be put for sale so he could afford the new one–his way or the highway.
My son had his surgery and Ben never even came to the hospital or back to the other house to see how he was doing. When he stopped over one time to get mail, we talked for a little bit and he informed me I could let my son know what he was causing me to lose.
I packed up a trailer of stuff and loaded my car and followed my son back to our home state.
Ben would send me texts here and there for the holidays, etc. He started dating again less than 6 months after I left (he finds these women online) and told me he hated losing me, “hated, hated, hated it” and that he “never would have left me”.
He hinted on coming up to see me, me coming there, that he still owned my female part, etc. I never accepted the hints. I knew what would happen to me if I returned.
So now he is in another relationship which he posted on a date that is significant to both of us, he always wins and will “give it to you” if you go against him.
Part of me wants to warn this new lady and tell her to run like hell, but he is so smooth that he would just claim me as being the crazy one.
Sorry this is so long and thank you for reading it. There is MUCH MUCH more, but it would be a novel. I hope any of you that are experiencing any of this, that you get the help you need and get out. Ben also put recording devices (cameras, voice recorders, etc.) in his daughters’ rooms when they lived at home so he could monitor every second of their lives. He snuck a camera up in our living room before he left out of town. I unplugged it. He called later claiming that he put it there b/c he liked to watch me.
So as stupid as this might sound, will he get better? I feel sick to my stomach thinking I went through all of that crap to try to get him to change and that he might use those “lessons” with his new relationship now ( as in one of his texts to me, he claimed he didn’t need BSDM anymore) and that I did all of that in vain.
Obviously, I began reading this blog because I am interested in the fate of ageing narcissists. And what grabbed my attention (something I haven’t seen elsewhere) was the mention about ‘shopaholism’, because I’ve always wondered why ‘my’ narcissist has what seems an addiction to shops, being seen wandering through shops, stealing from shops and buying things for himself.
I’m quite old now. For most of my life, those with NPD were labelled ‘egoists’. People would describe those with NPD has having a big ego. It’s only relatively recently the term ‘narcissist’ has gone mainstream. So, countless millions have not known they were involved with a narcissist. The only term they had was ‘ego’. They grew to know they were involved with someone cruel or violent .. someone hurtful and disloyal .. someone who managed to divide others .. someone who could fool countless others, etc. Today, millions know or are learning that those who’ve hurt and damaged them the most are known as ‘narcissists’ and it is helping all those wounded, damaged victims to realise that their sad lives are not their own fault but instead, they are survivors. I think most victims and survivors of narcissists should be treated as casualties of war, basically. And it’s probably very true that those survivors suffer at least a form of post traumatic stress and shock from which many are unable to fully recover, if in fact they’ve managed to escape the destructive machinations of the world’s narcissists.
My story will be difficult to believe. Both my parents were violent, wilful narcissists I know now. For years, I thought they were simply mad. I did everything to gain acceptance, let alone love. I know now (and did even then) that I was a target, the family scapegoat, the one who would always be beaten and made to suffer. I left home when just 17 with only the clothes on my back. In time, my sister revealed herself to be as bad if not worse than our parents and betrayed and attempted to destroy me for 45 years before I cut her completely from my life, using a solicitor and the law to achieve that.
My first husband put me through the same sort of hell. I wondered what I’d done to deserve it. He was addicted to attention, gambling, drinking, shopping for himself, stealing, borrowing money he never repaid, womanising and taking his Mediterranean family’s side against me and our children. We lived on the smell of an oily rag, as they say, while he threw all his earnings away. He broke my heart. My hair fell out. I was and looked, wretched. He took every penny, drove me into the ground at our divorce. Then he ignored our lovely children for 25 years, didn’t support them, made promises he never kept while he moved from one woman and friend to the next, taking as much money from them as he could before moving on.
My second husband doled out the same sort of torture and after 17 years of spending what we didn’t have to feed his fantasies, he dumped me for a woman who’d collected some millions in her divorce (which had been manipulated by my second husband).
At that point, my first husband reappeared. He sounded and seemed chastened. He wanted us to reunite and be a real family. It seemed he’d realised what he’d done to my children and me and he did appear sorry. I used to say online to be prepared to give people a second-chance, because some leopards really can change their spots.
Now, my first husband is in his early-70s. His amazing good looks are well and truly gone. But not his fantasies of being a ‘rich, big shot’. He still gambles and drinks and I doubt a day goes by without him strolling through shopping malls, buying cheap trinkets for himself. He gorges, then he starves himself. He’s very, very bitter and hates the entire world. He ignores us, then he’ll draw us in by speaking to us and making jokes, only to close us down a second later by walking away when we’re in mid-sentence. He stores enormous rage, especially towards those with money. If someone wins a lottery on the other side of the world, he takes it as a personal affront. His ridiculous fantasies continue. I’ve spent years trying to learn about fantasy prone individuals, only to discover, very recently, that this is the hallmark of narcissists. All the women with whom he had relationships ended us being extremely depressed before they left. According to him, it was always, ‘their fault’ the relationships ended, similarly with all the friends who left. He works to destroy our children’s confidence, also mine. He hates almost everyone, but of course, employs a charming face.
These days, I believe narcissists live in an alternate reality. They have massive expectations of everyone else and of Life generally. Yet my husband has done nothing to realise his fantasies. He just expected to become rich and famous without effort. And all the way through, he’s taken money from everyone he’s known and thrown it away. Women always flocked to him, yet he has suffered the world’s worst case of premature ejaculation ever since I met him and throughout all his other relationships. He’s a mother’s boy and a sisters’ boy also. In his eyes, his family (meaning his parents and siblings, etc.) are the only family of any interest on the planet. He enjoys others’ misfortunes. He works very hard to destroy other people’s confidence. Now, he’s hoping I’ll die so he can sell the house and spend large. He refuses to accept he might die without ever becoming the rich big shot he’s always regarded as his destiny. He has more ‘personalities’ than could be contained in a room. Instead of asking him, ‘ How are you today ? ‘ — people should actually ask, ‘ WHO are you today ? ‘.
I see now that if one is raised by narcissists, one has to learn to accommodate their behaviours in order to survive. The child of the narcissist is therefore ‘trained’ from early childhood and believes narcissism to be ‘the norm’. When that child grows up, they are drawn in by other narcissists, because those other narcissists seem ‘normal’ to them. And narcissists who’re rejected by genuinely normal society latch onto the victims of previous narcissists, because those victims are the only ones who (initially and often for a long time) will tolerate and ‘feed’ them. Childhood victims of narcissists are therefore ‘branded’ by narcissistic parents in the same way cattle are branded. And very often, they become victim to one narcissist after the next, with their confidence and ability to discern destructive individuals decreasing all the way through. Many victims of narcissists believe they are ‘fated’ to be unhappy. They see no escape and blame themselves for their misery.
Today, I am learning how to deal with my aged narcissist husband. I refuse to allow him to SEE that he affects me emotionally, etc. I maintain my equilibrium, roll with the punches and regard him as someone who’s mentally ill. I refuse to be pulled into arguments or head-games just as I refuse to question his absences or behaviours. I am refusing to ‘feed’ him. I give him only ordinary attention rather than letting him dominate our home and emotions. I will not be driven out into the world at this age stripped of my home, security or a penny. I will outlast him. And the reason for my stubbornness is my determination to stay to the end in order to pass down our house etc. to our children, rather than allow him to squander everything I’ve worked for in his last big gesture of playing the big shot at our children’s expense. It comes at a cost, but I’m an old hand at it now. And I am very, very strong, thanks to my life’s experience of narcissists and their ploys.
Such is my husband’s craving for other people’s money, material goods, alcohol, attention, ‘fame and glory’, etc. that I suspect that even at his death, he’ll lurk hungrily in the afterlife waiting for the chance to jump into the body of a newborn or someone who’s under the influence of drugs or drink, in order to get another chance of fulfilling his aims. I don’t regard narcissists as fully human, in other words. They seem not to have a soul. When you become involved with a true narcissist, it’s actually a spiritual battle. They seek to dehumanise you, strip you of hope, joy, love, confidence, future, etc. Warnings about narcissists should be told from the pulpit
That is so true! I have dealt with full blown NPD family members as well as an ex best friend and it truly becomes a spiritual battle.
I get aggravated at articles such as this. Though the information is spot on, almost invariably the gender used in these articles is male. That is most certainly not the reality. This can convince women who themselves suffer from this mental illness an out to blame their abused target.
Well maybe you should tell your story then, Bill. Instead of invalidating and undermining other peoples traumatic experiences on this forum. Don’t get it twisted, this isn’t about gender, its about Narc abuse, which we all know can come from our mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, friends, co-workers, business partners, wives, husbands… and so on…it’s a WORLD epidemic! Tell us your story instead of complaining about genders and getting triggered by women who have been abused by a narcissist.
My heart aches as I read these testimonials, bound as we are in our shared and unenviable grief.
I assume most of us came here searching for some assurance that our narcissist will magically change as they age. At this point in your research you’ve probably given up hope of them ever owning up to the diagnosis, lost faith that they will go into therapy, and you’re angry that there isn’t a way to medicate this problem away.
We desperately search for any bit of good news to cling to, for the promise that if we just “wait it out” our patience will be rewarded. Yet, instead of hope we are met by a chorus of voices shouting that our journey will only darken.
Consider this, dear reader; those who are in a N relationship that become “better” (or at least holds the promise of neutrality) would not be searching for an answer to the same question we are seeking an answer to, because they are enjoying (or at least coping with) an improved relationship with their narcissist, and are therefore not in these forums doling inspiratinspiinspirational advice. This absence of anecdotal evidence does not mean it doesn’t exist.
Please do not give up. Don’t give up on them. And more importantly – don’t give up on you. Concentrate on becoming the best you that you can be – strong mentally, spiritually, physically, and financially so that whatever the future holds with this person you will be you will prepared. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
I may sound like an over-the-top optimist, but in this situation can we really afford they have two people in this relationship that are all gloom and doom?
I have only just started researching the pitfalls of being connected with a narcissistic person. This actually scares me as I have known this person since childhood and I am now in my 60’s.
How slow on the up-take am I? Over 20 years ago I slammed the door on this person and everyone connected to them. and moved across the country. Sadly, since we were more like sisters then friends I decided that after 5 years we needed closure and I placed a phone call. I figured that with 3000 miles between us how much damage could they do? Well, just give them time.
Fifteen years later, that being a year ago, the controlling queen bee sent one of her minions to my door step. I had at this point moved back to my home state but was living in the middle of nowhere for a number of years. During that time period I had received one phone call from her. This is of interest as I do not have a phone in my name. Someone else in the home took the call that I did not return. Over the course of a few years they sent letter to my home that I returned stating that said person did not live here. This in the end was not a deterrent. That is when they finally enlisted one of their lackeys to ferret me out. Since it had been 20 years I didn’t even recognize their Sargent at Arms but when I learned who they were I promptly stated that I did not wish to have a connect with her. They at that point played the ill-health card. Well I fell for it, and in the end it appears to be total crap.
To make a long story a bit short, after a few cocktails I learned that she managed to locate me by maneuvering a friend in the medical profession to open my records in order to discover my current address. I’m sorry, should I be flattered?
I totally wouldn’t mind dropping a dime on this person and I do have leverage as they have a criminal record they would not want to come to light, but they aren’t the only ones that would go down for this. They after all didn’t open the records but got one of their victims to do it for them and they would loose their pension. I am a moral person and a Christian who doesn’t believe a victim should attack another victim. In short, she still has the upper hand.
The only thing I can think of is, I wonder how many of her minions know she took the game this far. She has a new husband, does he know about this? What about her remaining family? I mean if she could do this to me what will she do to them.
I hate the fight and I am too old to do the flight. Where to from here?
I had a narcissistic father and masocistic mother. My belief in God or a Divine source helped me thru all this. I was 37 years old before I realized the damage that was done to me. What I do know is that the people that raised me really don’t like themselves. I broke a cycle. Thank God!
My NPD dad basically never listened to other peoples advice with regards to his business because he was “smarter.” So, he almost went bankrupt several times. Couldn’t dare go bankrupt, but became suicidal. Was mean to me, chauvinistic. I bailed him out several times. Now, finally, he ran out of money, sold his last asset and is living with us. I am 50. My sister, who is a narcissistic pathological liar is in another country. Has been conveniently living the fun life in Europe while my mother died of a debilitating disease (I would also have been debilitated if I had to live with an NPD man). If I tell her that her father has needs, she quickly, narcissistically claims that she already told him what to do…
So, every day, I have to listen to him talk about himself, form morning to night. He hovers closely because he has no social life, So I breathe deeply and try to get into my own agenda. I am an unemployed mom of 8 yrs. quit working so I can be a great mom, made and award winning film, but cannot find work because I decided to stop working. So after 300 resumes and countless rejections, I now have another problem. A man that is preoccupied with himself. He finds his own life incredibly interesting, his doctor visits, his diet everything. He one ups every conversation I start, redirecting everything to his “vast knowledge.” Now, I see him as a mentally ill man living in my house. I get absolutely no emotional benefit from this paradox of him being labeled as my “father.” and having a useless biological sister – who is a charmer. Really has everyone fooled.
Do I have a choice to have him move out? With his economic condition, not really. If I asked him to go to an apartment – there will be a rage. He already had several tantrums in my house saying “I don’t feel like I should have moved here.” Despide his demanding nature, my husband and I have kept quiet, avoided confronting him with anything because of his volatility.
He seems to assume that I am his wife/mom.. I verbally told him I am not.
So, I cannot have him live out the last years of his life in a trailer home. I cannot move him to an apartment because he may indeed commit suicide.. then I have to live with that. So, I just go to a coffee shop and job search. Try to attend to my beautiful child. Try to remind myself that he is not my Spiritual father and he has no right to destroy my inner peace and beauty as a human being.
I hope one day that my life will get easier. Unfortunately. he has only lived with us 2 months and it seems like 20 years. He is extremely, excruciatingly narcissistic. His presence annoys me because he has not been a real Dad. I have been worried sick about that man for 33 years, ever since I became married. However, I have a wonderful husband – who is also too nice. So this selfish man that made so many mistakes now has a relatively free ride.
Wow you story is really shocking. You o have a problem. Don’t let him destroy your marriage.
My wife got bored with me after 23 years and left. Good for her. There is a history of the women on her side of family being narcs. The daughter always took care of the hated dying mother. We did it for my wife’s mom recently. I called my step daughter the other day to warn her that she is possibly next in line to care for her mother. We went to counseling a few times, but wife refused the plans laid out by the counselors. I was devalued, and discarded, along with my minor son. She admitted this to my pastor and his wife too. It hurts like hell, but I have been learning so much about this narc stuff and this is actually my fourth experience with narc women. I’m a good guy, I’m co-dependent in some ways, but I was completely faithful. Her, I’m not sure. Ditching me was as though she was unfaithful in my book. She didn’t know me that well. I had a boundary she didn’t know about. It’s off to the lawyers and I made the separation official with complaint of maintenance. I’m fighting this since she is in high standing in our community with the possibility to make lots of money and be with a rich man. I’m glad she left and I stayed in the house with my son and did not go to jail. She is not doing too well either and it only gets worse for her with age. She did start to drink moderate heavy before dumping me too. Narcs think they are so intellectual but they are really stupid when it comes to living life. They are open to all sorts of abuse. It’s sad and I’m hurting, but I didn’t make these choices for her. She made them and narcs know what they’re doing. Really sad.
Very Good! I met a woman who according to all the symptons of narcissism was 200% narcissist. I feel very sorry for her. She is gorgeous but now she is getting old, she is already 47 She has been married three times. She has always had men at her feet, because she is very attractive. We started talking and we started to like each other. We are even intending to have a relationship. She told me many strange stories. She is from Brazil but lives in Miami and she is an American citizen too. She has an 18 year-old daughter from her first marriage. Then she dumped her first husband because she said that he was too “obedient” to her. She said that she criticized him and he did not say anything. He only lowered his head.
A few years later she married again. A man from Guatemala. But again, a few years later she divorced him because “she said” that he did not care about her, that he would come home late at night etc. ( I wonder if this is true).
Then she met a billionaire in Miami who fell in love with her. They did not get married, but lived together for 8 years. During these 8 years this man deposited 10.000 dollars in her bank account every month as an allowance.
But she told me that because he was very promiscuous, then, she dumped him too.
Then she started going to church. I am not going to tell you what church but I think this church preaches a lot of heresies. I, for example, attend Assembly of God. I know that there are some mistakes as the tithes for Christians but this does not affect the whole doctrine. She has been attending church for 2 years now.
She told me that she has 32 siblings (can you believe that? Who in the world has 32 siblings) 22 of them are adopted. She also told me that she das Lupus (an incurable disease) and this causes her to have arthritis, stomachache (due to the remedies she has to ingest) she also has dry eye and a problem in her spine in two places.
A few days ago she went to the doctor and told me that she had been diagnosed with some fibroids in her uterus and that her uterus should be removed.
But she told that almost smiling (we used the audio on Facebook without the video). And she said that it was not a big deal for her, that she would have it removed it if was necessary.
I think she did that because she intends to tell a miracle at church. She tell everybody that she has to undergo an operation but a few days before the operation she is miraculously healed.
She also told me that when she was 16 she had face palsy.
I read an article saying that many narcs lie about being ill in order to make people feel sorry for them.
The article also says that the narcs’ main disease is cancer. But in her case, I think, because cancer would be a very serious disease to tell all her siblings, and her 84 year-old mother too, who has a million diseases too (according to her) she prefered to pick Lupus. She also told me that her mother lives on a farm and that her father was big farmer here in Brazil too. (Is this true?)
Then I talked to a woman who told me that her ex-boyfriend told her that he had terminal cancer. She tied as she could to go to the doctor with him but he never let her. The article says exactly that. That narcs never let anybody go to the hospital or to a doctor’s appointment with them because they are lying all the time.
Well we started a “virtual dating” but some 2 months later she started criticizing me (according to some specialists there are 3 levels in a relationship with narcs: (This process is known as gaslight)
When stage 2 started I blocked her on Facebook. But I missed her and we have started talking again. I really do not know whether she is a narc or not, or whether she is lying or not. I really do not know what to do. But I am a Christian and I believe that Narcissism besides being a psychological disorder is also caused by the devil himself.
But as a christian I believe that everything is possible for God and I will keep praying for her so that she can be cured, live a normal live, find a good man and be happy. She said that she wants to have a husband. As for me, I do not want to pay that price because I do not know whether God is going to cure her or not and now it is impossible to have a relationship with her. Nothing can please her.
Now I have blocked her again on facebook and I am not going to undo that.
“Narcissists are mentally-ill.” If this is true, does this mean that they are not responsible for being so mean?
I wish I didn’t give him one more chance, I wish i knew about his condition… Any how we been marry only two years but have a commitment relationship for 8 years, his abuces, his depression were getting worse and worse by day, a millionaire narcissist with 3 boys and a perfect wife how he used to called us.. one day he was out living with another woman, and tree days later another one and in four months he had been involved with so many… leaving my children and I with nothing, a month ago he brought one of his girlfriend and got into my room and they started having sex in my bed with my children and I in our HOME, it was horrified, i called the police and they arrested me after he saying the most disgusting lies about me, he manipulated the situation so good, he didn’t have any compassion no feelings… he hired the best lawyers to scared me, I forgot to mention that he is a lawyer himself… My boys and I are living in a room of a friend with a restraining orden… He is fighting to get full custody of the boys and trying to get me deported fabricating the most unbelievable lies.. He had lie so much that he is driving himself to his end, i feel sorry for him, he had just destroyed his family and career in one day… He hated me so much for rejecting him, just few days ago he loves me again and wants me back, good for me because he is now talking inconsistencies and lying is like a snow ball, i am begging him for the divorce but now he is offering me a new ring and a new wedding, And he saying that he won’t let me go.. I thought that i had see everything on him, but he keeps surprising me, our oldest son doesn’t even want to hear his name.. God definitely is making miracles, now the court is looking the proofs and going on my side, I don’t want him to have the boys, i have to protect them, i wich it is a test to proof how sick this people are, how hurtful they can be. Prays for my family! Good luck to those suffering this nightmare. Question: can this people do something worse? Like kill, my friend are scared saying that he is addicted to me…
For the love of mommy dearest. My brother she had killed used to call it chasing the white ghost using the cocaine reference that drug addicts use in addiction for trying to get that first high again. He told me you can never obtain it, that normal mother love and relationship because she isn’t a normal mother. He told me not to try that it would just destroy me. That was way back when before she got so bad. She tried to destroy my father and sent him running from my life. Not one family member speaks to another, not just brothers and sisters. The most distant relatives do not speak. I have never seen most of my nieces and nephews. Two of my cousins have told me they not only will not allow her to see their children and will not allow other family members for fear of bringing her near. They fear she will try to take them as she has done to mine and my brother. That is how he was killed. You know the story. It wasn’t her fault the mother killed him to get her out of her life. She killed my husband and stole 3 life insurance policies. She played her games making me out to be evil one, then had my paid off house foreclosed on. As I sit here and type this, she has my son locked up in her ivory tower giving him razor blades telling him its time to go use them. He has cut himself more than a million times and made several very serious suicide attempts netting many weeks in children’s hospital. He has been raped living with her. She tells him I don’t want him and that I don’t love him that I never tried to get him back. I can’t get to him in anyway and if I try, she will have me put in jail. It won’t be the first time. She tried so hard on so many occasions in so many ways even the sheriff’s blocked her number so she couldn’t call them anymore. She isn’t the average narcissist. That is so beneath her. When you read the lists of behaviors and you hit the this or that, she takes the uptown from every time. She won’t have sex with just anyone. Her current husband is a federal court attorney. Common man isn’t good enough for her and yields no power for her games. When he didn’t play her game right, she had him locked up in a mental institution nearly destroying his career. She taught him how to play right. Street drugs too are so beneath her. Its the finest wines and cognac known to man and of course the pharmaceuticals she gets prescribed for everyone around her. She is the legal dosser and everyone gets pills shoved down their throats even every animal in her house. Its been that way for 30 years. I could go on and on. You all know the stories. Its been 5 years with shrink lady now. She constantly tells me I’m delusional ever believing there could ever be anything there as far as her being a mother. I failed again. I am dying and going blind. I called her a few days ago making one more attempt to see or talk to my son while I still can. I knew what I was getting into. I thought I was emotionally and intellectually prepared. The verbal and emotional attacks were horrendous, far worse than I could have ever imagined. She mistaking thought I was purposely insulting her. I took the easy way and apologized. I told her the truth about what she found insult in. “I told (my son’s name) about the apology and that’s the change in behavior that might make him want to see you again. If you keep apologizing, you might get to see him one day.” There was some good come out of it. She told me my father was trying to get in touch with me that they called 10 days ago. Of course she wouldn’t give me the number he called from. After an exhausting search, I found him. He had a heart attack and was in the hospital and almost died. I will be seeing him for the first time in 10 years this Friday. When she finds out we saw each other, he’ll have to move and change his phone number again. Mental illness or not, let the witch rot in hell.
I recently again pulled up my narcissistic aunty on her behaviour.I did it ten years ago when she was slagging off my mum and blowing up at me about comments made by me to her 9 year old daughter taking care of her coat after she put it in the floor.I got shouting rage of your mother thinks I’m a bad mother etc etc and this wasn’t the first time.So me having enough of all the years of abuse she had given my mother the ungratefulness of her taking and taking from her I EXPLODED and that was that.Fast forward ten years we have had some interaction and she only ever came to my mum when she was in need then disappeared even when my mum would email,text she got nothing until she needed something again.She would send an anniversary card each year but this is because she needs to keep up appearances that she’s actually nice to the rest of the family who has been told we are bad and neglect her.Oh may I add my mum has severe MS and I’ve never and mean never seen my Anuty do anything for her but God forbid we forgot or don’t help her out.Shes always falling apart or can’t cope.
Unfortunately she has custody of two of my cousins and how could my mum not write her a glowing report because if she didn’t the whole family would turn on us.
So last week she decided she wants to reach out to us and life is too short blah blahblah.
So she comes to see my mum with the two cousins(her actual daughter is grown up and moved out)it seems to go well then mum gets an email saying she can’t cope with being in a relationship where she’s pushed aside and neglected and that’s she’s such an altruistic person(yes that’s what she’s said) and that she cannot bring the two children into that kind of a Relationship!!!! What the….!!! My mum was heart broken and was questioning what she could have done that afternoon and if she was really that evil!!! So me being me let’s lose on my aunty not completely realising at this point she is in fact a toxic narcissist!!! Oh the emails I got back defecting,lies sob stories.This woman is 51!! She even said towards the end that she couldn’t cope and the kids would end up in care and that her social worker had been privy to my emails!!!! Threatening or what!!! Been reading up online about toxic people and even though those kids will lose out I want her as far away from me and my mother as possible!!
My husband is 70 and has never hurt me physically. But he’s a big guy and backs me into a corner and stands 2 inches from my face while he rages about something out of the blue and with no provocation. He’s tried to run me down with a car. But I can’t claim to be an angel. I’ve done my share of things- when things have gotten really bad I drank myself to oblivion. I’ve shouted back when he’s twisted my words or actions and I start to feel like I’m crazy. I’ve walked on eggshells trying not to make him mad. He’s never said he was sorry about his rages, snide remarks, telling me I’m ugly. He’s chased other women but I don’t think he’s ever been successful. He craves attention always looking for ways to ingratiate himself to people he knows or doesn’t. People would be astonished to know about his behavior- he’s always jovial and charming to others, with the exception of some notably ex-bosses and ex-wives. But my adult kids know. It seems as though others have it so much worse. And I can’t say that my husband doesn’t treat me kindly a lot of the time. But I know that he has NPD- was told by a therapist we were working with he does. I’ve always held off on leaving because awhile he’s hurt me emotionally it’s never been physical- just borderline so. He was also criticized mercilessly as a kid and now has to be perfect and right about everything. Part of that is forgiveable, but most of it is “grow a pair and put some big boy pants on!” I also can’t face being alone. I’m nearly 65 now.
He never hurt you physically but he’s tried to run me down with a car. WOW, that happened to me… and the answer is: he very well could have killed you. “I’ve walked on eggshells” is a common phrase, usually the narcissist claiming that THEY walk on eggshells around YOU- trying to make you the problem, not themselves. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had told you that before and that’s why you use the term applied to yourself… They can be charming, people meet them and are impressed.
You have been made to feel less than, that this is acceptable, that “you’re no angel either”. Hope you are able to talk to someone and make healthy decisions for yourself.
I will be thinking of you….
I’m 48 & & now single, living a peaceful life with my 12 yr old son. Back in Aug 2013 I met a man on a dating site (free of charge then). He looked good, in computers & had a 7 & a half yr old girl. In the first month I saw him 4 times & he had the girl on access visit for the summer. He said his ex-p had the Bi Polar disorder & she left in the clothes she stood up in, taking the girl ,then aged 4 & her 13 yr old from a prev.relationship of hers. when the girl went back after the visit,he started behaving oddly, clinginess, desperation & telling stories about himself, creating a glamorous past, but next to nothing was going on in his present. When it was him, my son & i, or just the two of us, he cooked basic food & seemed to be short of money. When I suggested going to the cinema or a museum, he didn’t want to know. I found in his kitchen a copy of a payday loan for 200 after just one month of seeing him. Next month another for 400, then another nxt month for 500. In the 1st 6 months we had 5 meals out in the small town he lived in, but he wouldn’t come out with me on any outing or day trip or meal elsewhere & i discovered he was drinking about 4 pints of beer every day & would walk to the pub 5 mins away. Days before the next access visit he became arrogant & his attitude was ‘its all about me & my daughter’. My son & i were nothing until he was alone again once she returned to her mother.The visits were every 6 weeks as he has her only in the school hols. What I found in the first 6 months was his terrible lies about his life, education, countries he’d been to, the big salaries he’d earned, the cars he’d owned & how he’s one of 15 people in the UK who can do his job. After 2 months he told me he loves me & that I’m the best thing that’d ever happened to him. Another 2 weeks on he suggested I move in with him. I said yes & despite his odd behaviour. Also he was unable to get the sails up in the bedroom when faced with condoms. He kept saying that we dont need to use anything claiming that ‘we are too old to make babies’. I was 45 at the time. I stuck to my guns & said its condoms. He was childish & brought up the ex-p claiming she was on the pill. It was to be the first of many inappropriate comments he would come out with. After that, he went out of his way to avoid sex. Silly me thought he would improve.After 2 weeks I got a buyer & everything was going ahead, then he started wanting to borrow money. Small amounts for food, but when I saw he’d bought himself cigarrettes. I said ‘you should have bought food instead’, his face turned very pink. I left his house that morning, heard nothing from him until 1.00am I was in bed when he sent a text, claiming that I have no compassion and I’m not intelligent. This was the point where I should have left for good. I was at solicitor stage selling my house & liked him, how do you simply end things right there? I ended up apologising for the comment I made. 4 weeks on, I found unpaid bills of his & a court letter arrived for 4 months unpaid child maintenance. My daughter said to me ‘cancel the house sale! ‘. He told me he owned a house but had tenants in it, he told endless stories about his ex-p, trying to blacken her name like an obsession week after week. I checked info on the internet & found that his house was actually repossessed years before, & the mortgage he apparently had at the time with me was actually false, he was renting privately. He became so awful & moody & another copy of a pay day loan appeared for 200 as he had a final reminder for unpaid water bill. I only saw these papers when he was asleep. At the time it looked like all this had cone out of nowhere. Then desperation came. The day I received my contract to sign, I felt very worried. Id be giving up my home to move in with this man who had money problems, and also the worry about the life my son would have, stuck in that house with him. As soon as I got my contract, he suddenly demanded a sum of money off me every month that would have left me not able to even run my car. I dared to object & he flew into a rage & told me ‘Go home, I’m so angry’. I left. Later I sent a text trying to simmer things down, but I received 3 nasty texts, in one he said ‘i find your world utterly boring’. I was called sad, aswell. He cut me off for 3 months exactly & wouldn’t answer my text or letter. I cancelled my house sale & I felt terrible for letting the buyers down. Then after 3 mths he contacted me through the dating site (still free messaging). I responded & met up with him. After 2 weeks he showed me a car he wanted (this is a man with no money &debts). He told me his mother said she’ll lend him the money but can’t get it for 3months. You may see what he wanted, me to say, ‘oh I’ll lend it you ‘. No, I said ‘oh well, you’ll have to think of something else’. 9 mths after we met, his bedroom problems were still there. I suggested the erectile tablets, he said ok, I paid for 2 packs & they worked, but he avoided paying for them, instead purchasing meals in restaurants for himself & his by then 8 yr old daughter, he bought clothes for himself & his child. On my birthday I got nothing, not even a card, but he bought his 8 yr old a mobile phone on the day of my birthday. A week after my birthday would have marked a year of us meeting. He started a text war out of nothing I call it (out of the blue he claimed I was ignoring him), then he cut me off again & took his child out to an indian restaurant, still refusing to pay anything towards the tablets. The day after the anniversary day, he contacted ne again & asked me to come to his for dinner as though nothing had happened. When I asked him why he cut me off on the day of our little anniversay, he said I hadn’t been giving him any attention. I should have realised during the 1st 6 mths he said he has about 30 different personalities & also said ‘i like an audience’. He said ‘ive spent most of my life on my own’. These were clues to a personality disorder. As he refused to contribute anything towards his tablets,
he put the new pack of tablets outside under his car & i drove 20 miles there & back & collected them. 8 hours later he sent 2 texts claiming that I had hurt him & that I must be laughing & he text ‘i am not your play thing’. He also claimed that the tablets made him feel so sick so I could have ‘my’ fun. He cut me off for 7 weeks then contacted me again. It was when I met up with him i discovered in that 7 weeks he bought himself a convertible car with a car finance loan! Yet he claimed to be struggling with money. He said he couldn’t see me til pay day (in 4 days time) as most of his money went on the deposit! I felt disgusted. He even mentioned he’d bought himself a driving cap! I never ordered any more tablets again. 2 mths later he asked to borrow £10, I Said ‘sorry no cash on me’. Later he wanted £20, I said the same. Next it was £180 I said the same & he was so angry he ranted by text blaming me, though his debt was nothing to do with me. My thought was ‘greedy man, you’ve made your bed you can ly on it!, then he cut me off for a month. It was 10th Dec when he came back. I think he realised he wont get cash out of me the way he did from his ex-p. At Christmas it wasn’t his turn to have his child & so he played up, til wild stories & when my daughter & her partner left, he started ranting at me. I thought ‘ by January he’s history! By January we had a quiet but heated conversation about his behaviour, but he resorted to insulting my son’s clothes & he started swearing. He ranted ‘when you wouldn’t lend me that 180, I was so angry I wanted to punch you in the stomach ‘. By that time it was time to get out. I left quietly as if it was just a tiff. I didn’t contact him & he didn’t contact me. 5 mths went by then I heard from him. We lasted 27 days, til I decided never again. In that time, he insulted the holiday location I’d booked for my son & I. Obssessed about his ex-p & ranted that his child was the most important person in his life, even saying ‘ive got to stay alive for her’, though she called her mother’s latest partner ‘my other daddy’. The child once said to me ‘my daddy gets angry’. Id got to the point of booking a holiday for my son and i because he never appeared to have any money to pay for himself & showed no interest in doing anything with me. Yet when he was told I’m going on a holiday he acted in a jealous manner and criticised my choice. I told him yet again to stop obssessing about his ex-p as it was the same thing, ranting about her having a holiday, like a jealousy thing, yet he wouldn’t save for anything. He caused himself huge problems, being greedy. He previously told me that his ex-p was a teenage model and looked Russian. Amongst my research, I found her on Facebook & it was clear enough she was never a model. It was pitiful. It seemed to come to me there and then, looking at a crystal clear photo of her that she had never any model potential of any kind. There was lie after lie. His whole life was a lie. I tracked down his older brother on the internet (I never met his brother or mother) for any info about him & I got back enough to go by. I was told, terrible with money, jumps from one financial crisis to another, arrogant, opinionated, bolshy, low self esteem, complex at times, ley his house get repossessed, overspending, habitual liar, borrowing, taking out loans. Also, the month before he met me, he needed his brother to be a guarantor for a loan. Brother said ‘i will only do this once’. The mother had already decided NO MORE! Then he went on a dating site to look for an alternative. I came along. I also got told ‘its believed he broke up with his ex-p because he spent all her money & when she refused to give him any more, it lead to arguements and violent rants, then he claimed she spent all his leaving huge debts’. The mother & brother dont see him much & gradually he’s cut himself off from most people. Also he told his mother & brother that he has full custody of his child and that she lives with him permanently, when she DOESN’T . It was horrifying,but sad. I got told ‘to be perfectly honest, I think he’s looking for someone to fund his lifestyle and pay his debts, otherwise he’s not interested ‘. The ex-p got the sane treatment, only I still have my house and my money. He also stalked my dating profile and there’s messages on there that I wont read as nowadays you have to pay to access messages. He used IDs ‘whataloadofrubbish’, ‘tiredofthisbynow’ & ‘dreadfullydull’. & ‘laughterlines’. I typed up a 6 page letter of some his lies, the bad behaviour & deceit. My daughter says a waste if time, but I wanted him to know why he’s been dropped yet again. I year and a half on, I’m doing better. I hope any normal minded people in doubt read these messages & think hard, but especially think about any children you have that would be stuck round these dreadful people, listening to screams & violence.
Dear Nancy everything you have written is true. These predators are the ultimate losers. They seem to see nothing wrong in the harm they do. I know that they know the difference between right and wrong. I also know that they know they are hurting people and they don’t care. And it is a Personality disorder not a mental illness. They can treat people with mental illness narcissists don’t want to be helped because they love themselves the way they are. They are sick, toxic, and dangerous. Horrible, horrible people. Sick,sick and sad and lonely apart from the hundreds of women they have on their phone. They will never know how to love someone. Xx
I had a malignant narcissist (no cure) to contend with… took me a while to unlock some of the keys before things began to make sense. The orange narcissist isn’t complicated at all. Fairly predictable if you are aware of what’s on his plate at the time.
I would guess they get worse as they get older, but I can also see how some could mellow- I’m convinced malignant narcissists are incurable.
But, if a narcissist is continually being praised and shown admiration, then I think it would grow much, much worse. The orange narcissist is, as we speak, educating many on the traits of narcissism, and he is likely growing more self-obsessed with each passing hour over his new sense of greatness and power that it is likely to manifest in an explosive and rather unattractive, public way; unless the powers that be step in and humiliate him in front of the world as he is carted off to prison for treason…. Only going to get worse.
His sexual addiction got worse, yes, I think they get worse with age, or more time with the same supply female perhaps. I kept coming back, and the time apart allowed him to cultivate new supply. I always snooped, but found nothing horrible, but, last 2 times reunitined, I found sexual messages with his friend’s wife, then tons of live interactive sex cam sites, visited regularly. Once I saw what he was looking at, that did it, I needed that visual…all the other stuff, I overlooked and believed his lies….
I have been with my husband for 11 years now. At the beginning he was not charming at all. But he was different, he didn’t treat me like a princess and that’s what I liked. He was not assertive or anything like that. I had self esteem issues as well. Over the years I realized he had anger issues and was sometimes verbally abusive and well I knew he had a really bad childhood. But it wasn’t anything I couldn’t handle. He always excelled at his job but always had issues with boss. Had always had issues with authority. The majority of time he was always great to be around. Then he got laid off, and his dad betrayed him and I had gone through something that cause me to withdraw. He changed. He landed a new job. He became egotistical cuz everybody would praise him and got status immediately. He started caring about his looks a lot. He was angrier more. Later I found out he cheated on me with a coworker. He is just different now cuz I always always saw him as an honorable man. He started displaying Narcissistic traits and when confronted with it he agreed and sought out treatment. While he is aware of his actions he knows he is constantly now needing attention and is now depressed and feels numb. Not sure if he can still be saved.
Has anyone read of the Agnes Whitfield case, in Canada? This happened around 2014. She was a university professor of late middle-age when she suddenly left her husband and grown children on the day of her mother’s funeral, took up with a lover in another country, and then proceeded to accuse her older (and loving) brother of having horrifically sexually abused her during childhood. She caused irreparable harm. The accusations were considered by many to be false, and to fall into the category of a shared psychosis. Agnes was quite capable throughout the court proceedings, however, and won the day the first time around. Her brother had to appeal. She showed no remorse. I have always thought that Agnes had Narcissistic Personality Disorder, quite virulently. From what I have read, her NPD came on suddenly when her own mother died. I see this same situation mentioned above in one of the first comments here. I think that for someone who has NPD, family caretaking and support for years may keep them stable (and keep the supporting family members feeling like doormats). Then, in late middle age or beyond, there is some trigger that sets it all off. The NPD was always there, but more or less within bounds that other family members had put up with. Then, it went out of bounds. In the Whitfield case, oddly enough, two of Agnes’ sisters were medical doctors, one a Psychiatrist. Did no one in the family realize the presence of NPD before Agnes went off the deep end?
I just left my NPD husband after 22 yrs. My experience is that it gets worse with age. I recently heard you can not only get addicted to substances but the brain can also become addicted to moods. And with any addiction you become numb to a certain level of anger or whatever so then you have to up the ante to get that same level of ‘high’ from your anger. It makes sense in my situation.
This is my life. My narcissistic mother colluded with my husband to steal my children away from me so he could run away and file for divorce. But I’m supposed to apologize to her for calling her bad names? At least I don’t have to pretend to love her any more…
I am in my 60’s and stumbled on sites about Narc mothers only 3 years ago or so. This was after her 88 year old grand finale display of toddler-like rocking in her chair when my family went to visit after our vacation. It left us all shaking. I think she resented our happiness.
She went beyond that and messed with the locks on her house so that I couldn’t get in. I lived 5 minutes away, the only other relative was Golden brother who lived 80 minutes away. Really quite stupid on her part, medically speaking. He eventually whisked her and her estate away to Pennsylvania.
After she died 4 years later, I spoke with another brother who had long ago fled for the west coast. As part of her smear campaign, she told him that I broke into her house and was going through her things, among other quite slanderous lies. I don’t have any idea what would have been such a secret in her house, since I handled all of her banking accounts. On one of my last encounters, she had a BIG blowup with her primary, and she demanded that he turn over all of her physical medical files to her. My guess is that he pegged her personality disorder and that there was some embarrassing documentation, but I did not look, so who knows?
In any event, it seemed to me like her symptoms were intensifying the last couple of years I saw her – her moodiness toward me and her clinging to Golden brother. I wish I could have been a fly on his wall after she was living there. I would bet that he got more than he bargained for.
To anybody reading this whose crazy family is still alive, get educated about the family dynamics and try to protect yourself.